Reproductive success

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Congrats! After years of cold showering, and buying the most stylish haircuts, you've ascended from inceldom and passed your genes onto the next generation! Your son has inherited your cold shower, stylish haircut preferences so he too passes on his genes. You are a reproductive success!
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Reproductive success (RS) is the lifetime number of children produced. Fitness is often defined as the expected representation of someone's genes in future generations. Reproductive success is often used as an imperfect measure of fitness, imperfect because it says nothing definite about future generations.[1] Survival and reproductive success determine the outcome of evolution.

Women have more RS[edit | edit source]

The fertility ratio is the ratio of the number of offspring each group produced compared to healthy people. Men are evidently much more forgiving. More information.

Throughout human history, women's reproductive success was around twice as high as men's as a result of Bateman's principle,[2] which in turn is thought to result from women's greater investment in the offspring, causing some men to have children with many women (polygyny or remarrying) while many men got nothing. Around 80% of women, but only 40% of men (i.e. half as many) have reproduced, or 60%-30% or 70%-35%, etc. depending on child mortality and ecological harshness.[3] These effects can be still seen today with women with mental conditions and overweight reproducing more reliably.[4] This means women have overall been subject to less selective pressure, which may explain why their sexuality seems to be stuck in the past.

Many incels don't want RS[edit | edit source]

Around 44.1% of incels on incels.co are not interested in reproducing. 41.3% would like children if they have a partner, 14.6% even by themselves (i.e. an adoptive child).[5]

RS and happiness[edit | edit source]

More reproductive success does not make people happier, at least not today, presumably due to the additional effort of raising the offspring.[6] Even at old age.[7] This suggests that even though reproductive success is what matters from the point of view of the genes, people are primarily driven to reproduce by the psychological and social benefits of companionship, sex and orgasms.

Nonetheless, only 9% of parents outright regret having kids, and even only 3% of parents who graduated from college. Further, having offspring (in particular female offspring) lowers the chances of having to live in a nursing home at high age. Only 4% of adults over 40 don't have children and are satisfied with that. (Please see the discussion on the tradcon article for more information and sources.)

Reproductive strategies[edit | edit source]

Fath-Ali Shah Qajar, a beardmaxxer

Men[edit | edit source]

  • Moulay Ismail ibn Sharif, a Moroccan monarch, had a harem of 500 women, and registered 525 boy births and 342 girls. After his death, a total of 1171 children were counted.[8] So "just be a king" is clearly the optimal strategy for men's reproductive success, since women prefer men of high status. In fact, men's social status accounts for 62% of the variance of copulation opportunities.[9] A related, but less effective strategy is pump and dump. Different from a king, men engaging in this strategy cannot or do not afford providing for the offspring they produce by carelessly impregnating many women.
  • In a similar way, Fath-Ali Shah Qajar, an Iranian shah (king), was reported to have a harem with 800 to 1,000 women (and 4 wives). One source puts the number of his children at 103 (57 sons and 46 daughters) and his grandchildren at 588 (296 grandsons and 292 granddaughters) by the time of his death. Another one puts this at 280 children (130 sons and 150 daughters) and 5,000 "descendants."[10]
  • Religion can also provide a viable strategy for men to maximize their reproductive success. For instance, men who achieve positions of prominence in certain polygamist religions (such as the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints, aka the Mormons) often have plentiful reproductive options at their disposal. For instance, the Mormon leader and the founder of Salt Lake City, Brigham Young, had 18 wives and 56 children.[11] A more recent Mormon fundamentalist leader, Paul Elden Kingston, may have up to 300 children with 27 wives (including three half sisters of his).[12]
  • Dr. Bertold Paul Wiesner (1901–1972) was an Austrian physiologist noted for being biological father to about 600 offspring by anonymously donating sperm used by his wife to perform artificial insemination on women at her private fertility practice in London, England.[13]
  • A handful of incels have been able to achieve reproductive success through independent sperm donation websites of their own creation.[14] There exists a sperm donor with 14 offspring who is a virgin.[15] A large amount of lesbian women and wives who's husbands can't conceive, genuinely don't care about the sperm donor's looks.
  • Young anti-social men have a disproportionate amount of offspring. Thus thugmaxxing, can maximize young men's reproductive success.[16][17]
  • Male genetic material can potentially also replicate via microchimerisms being transferred to the offspring.

Women[edit | edit source]

  • The first wife of Feodor Vassilyev, a peasant farmer from Shuya, Russia, claimed to have birthed 69 children (16 pairs of twins, 7 sets of triplets and 4 sets of quadruplets); 67 of them survived infancy with the loss of one set of twins—the record for most children born to a single woman (though, actual circumstances on whether this was the case were questioned).[18] Marrying a farmer & "just exist" is hence clearly the optimal strategy for women's reproductive success, because a farmer is low in social status, so he has little choice but to be a faithful partner (high-investment strategy), yet he has plenty of resources, food, land, water, and shelter. The farmer is the proto-betabux (except in case of Vassilyev, he was still probably a legendary alpha for his time and place and had multiple wives, so he had even more RS than she did, and historically, some farmers were also very powerful).
  • Different from men, high status women have less reproductive success than low status women, and always had, because women are biologically programmed to avoid dating down, and the higher their status is, the fewer men fulfill this requirement.[19] High status women also have no incentive to trade orgasms for resources, rendering their whoring adaptations meaningless.
  • Low IQ women have the highest reproductive success among females.[20] Hence, teenage high-IQ women can in principle inject themselves with exogenous testosterone to lower their adult IQ and increase reproductive success, since testosterone is IQ suppressant for women at high levels.[21]
  • Females can romantically pursue men whom are likely to produce offspring with the highest likelihood of having offspring themselves. Whom are men that are 6ft tall, extremely masculine and also beautiful looking, dumb, low IQ, extremely high testosterone, muscular, dominant, and aggressive. Basically Gigachad, also known as Jeremy Meeks. Jeremy himself has 2 children.[22]

Both[edit | edit source]

  • Kinship in the sense of helping family to survive and reproduce is a reproductive strategy because they have similar genes, hence this increases the representation of one's genes in future generations. This may be a reason for why altruism has evolved.
  • If already objectively attractive looking, avoid regression toward the mean in your offspring by reproducing with an objectively attractive partner of the same race, and general genetic background (same skin color, hair color, eye color, etc,).
  • Don't reproduce with a partner from a different continent so as to avoid outbreeding depression.
  • Reproduce with a partner not from the city you were born in so as to avoid inbreeding depression. A good rule of thumb is to travel outside of the home town or city one was born in, as far as the next state or country over, but not a completely different continent, to meet partners to reproduce with.

Violent reproductive strategies[edit | edit source]

Another way of increasing reproductive fitness besides directly pursuing reproduction, is eliminating competing genes from the gene pool by preventing others from reproducing, making it easier for you and or your closest relatives to reproduce (intrasexual competition or competition in general). A mild form of this is cockblocking, gossip or any kind of non-violent competition such as bullying.[23][24] The harshest form of competition imaginable is when this involves death, as in a beta uprising or any kind of violent conflict, such as acts of revenge.[25]

Sometimes aggression on behalf of a group can enhance status, and thus provide more access to reproductive opportunities (tribal warfare).[26][27] Some (mass) murders appear to be driven by an "altruistic" or "virtuous" motivation that their killings are a noble act of restoring order and justice, even though that may only elevate status (and hence increase access to reproductive opportunities) in the after life or in prison (so not really), hence there is always a transcendence to such motivations.[28] In honor-shame cultures this is particularly common. Technically, this is applicable to both males and females, but males pursue this strategy more often, possibly because they have been selected to dominate and protect with physical aggression (sexual dimorphism), and to do anything of significance really as men are more expected to succeed since women choose successful and dominant men.

Since fitness is the representation of one's genes in future generations, producing one child or killing someone else's child (infanticide) has nearly the same effect on one's genetic fitness when only merely considering the share of one's genes in the gene pool. This drives the Cinderella effect.[29] However, conflict can also lower reproductive fitness as one risks death or losing important social ties by a bad reputation, hence it happens rarely, especially in animals with sophisticated reputation systems such as in humans. Male aggression may also be fueled by hybristophilia and women's preference for psychopathy, which may have co-evolved as a reproductive strategy.

Another strategy is competing with other species, eliminating animals and or plants and use their space and resources for you and your kin. This, however can have a detrimental effect on fitness, as humans have an ecological dependence on other species (food chain). Animals aren't usually your direct competitors (with exceptions), but they do take up space on our planetary surface.

Non violent, cooperative people, (the majority of society) dislike unfair and violent reproducers because these reproducers are a threat to the majority's own reproductive success.

Incel Wiki does not support or condone violence.

Criticisms of high reproductive success and evolutionary psychology[edit | edit source]

A study showed claims of high reproductive success in the hundreds to be greatly exaggerated.[30] Extremely handsome men, 6+/10 in attractiveness as rated by women on the popular rating site photofeeler are near nonexistent among men that have 5 to 90+ children, with the only, handsome hyper reproducers or at least ones that have facial features that are commonly associated with attractiveness being Hirotada Ototake, Roman Reigns, Alec Baldwin, Marlon Brando, Ramon Revilla Sr, Clint Eastwood, Mel Gibson, Jude Law, Dr. George Hodel, Dan Marino, Jim Thorpe, John Fogerty, Cam Newton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Fetty Wap and Ryan Fitzpatrick.[31] The lack of hyper reproducing handsome men goes against evolutionary psychology as numerous studies show handsome men have the advantage in first impressions while dating, earning money, attaining popularity, etc. so should have a much easier and successful time becoming polygamous/serial monogamist and having many offspring, however they don't appear to want to do this. The most common hyper reproducers at least in the modern era are average looking, low socio economic status men, that have done jail time, and this is true both in the United States and the United Kingdom, with Desmond Hatchet, a criminal with over 100 charges and 20 to 30+ children being the prime example.[32]

The most reproductively successful, highly paid male model is Lucky Blue Smith with currently 3 children, likely because he is from Utah, the highest fertility state in America and part of the Latter Day Saints, a high fertility religious group, nearly all male models, even the richest most successful ones have near abysmal reproductive success with there only being about 11 among the top guys known on the internet. An average morph of these men reveals they are much more sexually dimorphic as well as more handsome than the average working male model.[33][34] However the vast majority of handsome, highly dimorphic men in the industry are childless.

Androgynous male models such as Matthew Clayvane (whom has complained on Facebook of being misgendered as a girl, even though women rate his photos as high as a 9+ in attractiveness) are drastically underrepresented among the reproductively successful. There is alot of evidence for assortative mating for attractiveness, the correlation is at least moderate if not very high, at least among celebrities for both mating (having sex but not having children) and reproductive success, although 60 husbands of the top world's most beautiful women (sorted by men's votes only) of all time were averaged together into various average morphs including a hyper realistic facial morph.[35] With the result being they are generically plain looking, not handsome at all, however they aren't drastically ugly either, simply right in the middle, although many had attractive smiles despite the average resting face. Still the averaged morph reveals the highest sexual market place value women are getting pregnant by men with moderate facial masculinity, a medium to strong chin, a chiseled/strong jawline, a long ramus bone, slight to moderate norwooding with an otherwise full head of hair, an extremely unagressive resting face, a smile thats just as if not more handsome than their resting face and thin to avg bmi. Very handsome men were near non existent in the sample, completely bald men were drastically under represented as 39% of men in the usa go bald, but 99+% of the sample had hair, fat men underrepresented as well. pretty boys, and men with outlierly low facial masculinity were completely non existent, so it is very clear these high value women were selecting for a specific appearance just not outlier handsomeness. The men that had sex with the most beautiful, popular women of all time but did not get them pregnant or any other girl for that matter, were a combination of very handsome men as rated by women, men such as Keanu Reeves and Jared Leto, and very ugly childless men, as a entire group, the men also had absolutely 0 norwooding. So overall after a sample of 20 of those men, the resulting average morph, was generically plain looking, continuing the sample to 30,40,50 and then 60 showed the men as a group have a very low facial width to height ratio, a low F.W.H.R. is again correlated with lower reproductive success as other studies have shown. The men were also very thin compared to the reproducers. The very low F.W.H.R. was driven by the very ugly men having this trait.[36][37]

Interestingly the men that got the most beautiful, popular women of all time pregnant look remarkably similar to the "attractive" husband average morph from a study done on the heritability of parent to offspring facial attractiveness, the results of which showed very high heritability of attractiveness for daughters but near none for sons.[38][39] Suggesting the study had a shortage of 7+/10 in attractiveness fathers as an actual averaged morph of 7+/10 attractiveness fathers as rated by women on photofeeler, fathers such as Jude Law, Tyson Beckford, Arnold Schwarzenegger etc. is very obviously better looking and was even rated nearly a 7/10 in attractiveness despite being just a basic morph, (which score lower than hyper realistic morphs), were as the "attractive" husband average morph (also a basic non hyper realistic morph) from the study would most certainly only get around a 4 to 5 out of 10 in attractiveness[40], suggesting Chad and Gigachad are unlikely to become fathers within the general population and that extremely outlier attractiveness on behalf of the father, on the level of a Silverfox is unnecessary for producing outlierly beautiful daughters. The obvious difference between the averaged "attractive husband" morph and the "unattractive husband" is that the unattractive husband has no head hair and the attractive has a full head of hair by middle age. Suggesting complete baldness is a legitimate sign of "bad genes" as they have less attractive daughters, and marry uglier wives on average. Still some outlier men get rated higher on photofeeler bald, than with hair. Men such as Andrew Tate, and there are other bald men that also score high. Men such as Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, Jason Statham, Vin Diesel, and Shemar Moore.

A hyper realistic average morph of Victoria Secret Model boyfriends showed these women were currently dating handsome men, about an 8/10 in attractiveness, however average in other looks facets such as perceived trust, smarts, and competency.[41] in contrast their girlfriends score high across the board, thus overall their current boyfriends tend to look worse than themselves[42]. Simply having a high facial width to height ratio has proven to be a better indicator of reproductive success and raw sexual partner count than handsomeness. The men that enter male beauty pageants like Mr. Supranatural are all outlierly handsome, however they all seem to be single, mainly posting pics of only themselves on social media. Nearly every woman in interviews says they want a man thats tall, handsome, educated, wealthy/high income etc. exactly how evolutionary psychology predicts, and these men are expected to have high sexual marketplace value, however many self identified incels are tall, educated, outlierly handsome, rich/wealthy etc.[43] and the 2 highest scoring men on photofeeler in attractiveness, 10/10 George Clooney and Johnny Depp still have problems dealing with their wives. Dating Guru Kevin Samuels pushed the concept that earning a six figure income automatically made the man "high value" however women insisted they had to be physically attracted, so at least average looking. The majority of these men would be high IQ however there is evidence suggesting high earning, educated men are more likely to marry very ugly women.[44] Also more men from S.T.E.M careers than humanities report lack of sexual success despite their high earning power etc. In reality the traits most correlated with high reproductive and mating success are toxically masculine behavior. Impulsive, manipulative, unfaithful, conniving, cheating, psychopathic, criminal, sexually aggressive/forward, entitlement to sex, dominance signalling, rape, becoming a cult leader, creating/joining a gang, etc. as these behaviors statistically lower the chance of ending up incel. No gang members post on incel forums.

There is a very obvious positive correlation between a higher net worth, and being ranked higher by women, as well as women ranking men higher for having a higher sexual partner counts on the hottest male celebrities of all time Ranker list (sorted by women's votes only). There is also a less obvious positive correlation between low IQ and being ranked higher by women. For example, both Leonardo DiCaprio and Johnny Depp dropped out of high school, which is usually done by men with IQs in the 80s. Channing Tatum has ADHD and dyslexia and had to take classes with kids that had down syndrome, he also dropped out of college, and Brad Pitt dropped out of college as well, just shy of graduating.[45] An averaged facial morph of the men with the highest sexual partner counts, men such as Leonardo DiCaprio with 71 known relationships and likely more affairs, mistresses etc. compared to another averaged morph of men from the list that have low sexual partner counts, men such as Hugh Jackman, whom has had only had 1 known relationship, reveals that even though both groups are handsome, the low sexual partner count men are very clearly more handsome and male model esque both in face and height as they are also taller, leaner and more muscular, although have dramatically less net worth wilst still being rich.[46]Also The low sexual partner count, hot men had double the fertility of the highest sexual partner count men, 2 children vs 1 on average. Suggesting there is a goldi locks zone for financial success and reproductive success.

The men on the hottest male celebrities of all time list (sorted by women's votes only) are much more likely to have daughters, especially for the top 20 and top 10 respectively whom have a whopping twice as many daughters as sons, which is a huge effect size, and this bias toward having more daughters holds to 100 sons to 110 daughters for all 140 men on the hot list, with linearly more sons being born the less attractive women rate the man. The world wide norm is for couples to have 105 sons to 100 daughters (so 55% chance for a son and 45% chance for a daughter for the perfectly average man).[47] This actually is backed by evolutionary psychology as per the generalized Trivers-Willard hypothesis that physical attractiveness, while advantageous for both boys and girls, is even more beneficial for girls than for boys. A study showed being physically attractive as early as child hood significantly increases the likelihood of having more daughters by age 40, about 20% more.[48]. The fact that this effect is dramatically stronger among adult celebrity men, whom women rate as most desirable, shows that women have an uncanny 6th sense for not only knowing who can give them beautiful daughters, but lots of them as well. Furthermore over 80% of the men among the top 60 have at least one child, compared to only 60% of men in the USA having at least one child, suggesting that at least some drive to become a father is attractive, and that women can actually also detect which handsome, desirable men will get them pregnant. The attractive rated men having more daughters is replicated in the official study "Physical attractiveness and reproductive success in humans: Evidence from the late 20th century United States" which shows very attractive men having the most amount of daughters, least amount of sons and the very unattractive men having the most amount of sons, least amount of daughters.[49]

However Gelman and Weakliem (Gelman & Weakliem, 2007) found no evidence of a biased offspring sex ratio in a sample of celebrities voted to be “most beautiful” by American magazine readers. This discrepancy is likely just down to statistical chance though as the attractive men having more daughters scenario, replicates in many other samples such as the "The Hottest UFC Fighters Of 2023" Ranker list where the men have 17 sons to 21 daughters[50]. The "The Hottest NFL Players Of 2023" Ranker list where the men have 5 sons to 6 daughters, as well as in the "The Hottest NBA Players Of 2023" Ranker list: 7 sons to 7 daughters for the top 20 men.[51][52] There is a strong daughter gender ratio bias for the top 39/46 most attractive men on the "The Most Handsome Male Redheads" Ranker list, then a boom in sons from the bottom 7 least physically attractive men, with the final result being 35 sons 34 daughters, so still a slight daughter preference in the end[53]. The high male physical attractiveness daughter gender ratio bias continues to replicate as even on the "The Hottest Pictures of Older Actors When They Were Young" Ranker list, the top 10/31 men had more than double the amount of daughters than sons, with 50 sons to 60 daughters being the total[54]. This again replicates in the "25 Of Your Mom's Hottest Childhood Crushes" Ranker list 37 sons to 37 daughters[55].

This once again replicates on the "Historical Male Sex Symbols, Ranked By The Likelihood They Would Be Sex Symbols Now" Ranker list, 32 sons to 45 daughters total with there being slightly less than double the amount of daughters than sons for the top 10 attractive men, and a whopping triple the amount of daughters for the absolute most attractive men, for example man #7 Sidney Poitier had 6 daughters in a row and only daughters[56]. Many of these high ranking men are not Chad in physical appearance and are still considered by people to be ridiculously charismatic, and attractive. The results of these lists shows that even just raw charisma without looks predicts a daughter bias. For example man #23 on that "Historical Male Sex Symbols, Ranked By The Likelihood They Would Be Sex Symbols Now" list, Grigori Rasputin is known for being exceptionally ugly but also known for his great charisma for being able to charm his way into the Romanov royalties good graces by presenting himself as a holy man with magical powers such as the ability to see the future and heal the sick. Which predicts him having his 2 daughters. However the men on the "The Hottest Royal Men" Ranker list actually have a huge son gender bias 27 sons to 16 daughters[57]. This is likely just statistical chance though as the men on the "The Hottest Male World Leaders" Ranker list, excluding royalty have 20 sons to 24 daughters.[58] In the "The Hottest Asian Male Actors In Hollywood" list, the men had a daughter bias 18 sons to 18 daughters, however the most attractive Asian men on the list had more sons, considering how often the attractive man more daughter norm replicates, this is likely just statistical chance.[59]Again the daughter bias replicates in the "The Most Handsome Black Actors Today" Ranker list, 82 sons to 84 daughters[60].

High male singing ability (an attractive trait) also predicts having daughters as on the "The Greatest Male Pop Singers Of All Time" Ranker list the top 40 men (ranked by female voters only) have 56 sons to 57 daughters[61]. The "The Greatest Baritone Singers in Music History" Ranker list men also have a daughter bias. 24 sons to 33 daughters for the top 20 ( sorted by women's vote), more daughters bias strongest for the top 10 men, (more than double daughters than sons)[62]. This again replicates in the "The Best Singers Of All Time" Ranker list. 39 sons to 38 daughters for the top 20 men (sorted by female voters only)[63]. Replicates again in the "The Sexiest Musical Artists of All Time" Ranker list where the men on the list have 19 sons to 23 daughters sorted by (female voters only) and have double the amount of daughters than sons for top 10 men[64]. And once again the daughter gender ratio bias for high male singing ability replicates in the "The Greatest Bass Opera Singers Ever" with the top 20 men having 16 sons to 17 daughters[65]. This continues to replicate in the "11 Of The Greatest And Most Famous Bass Singers" blog post with the men having 10 sons to 13 daughters, as well as in this blog post "Famous Bass Singers: 21 Of The Most Talented Ones" where they had 20 sons to 22 daughters[66][67]. Also among the 140 men from the hottest male celebrities of all time Ranker list, 75% have clips on YouTube singing at a professional level. This is despite the fact that nearly all of them are known solely for their acting careers and their musical prowess is little known. This suggests the physical appearances of the men, women rate as the most overall attractive have a high intercorrelation with singing ability. The men taking singing lessons does not fully explain how so many are able to sing at a professional level as many men such as comedian Pete Davidson (whom is average looking in rated attractiveness) claim to have taken singing lessons for at least a year and still cant sing at all, while Tom Cruise whom admitted to taking lessons to sing at a professional level for the movie "Rock of Ages" can. Also women on Photofeeler rate the men on the hottest male celebrities of all time list such as Johnny Depp and Ian Somerhalder (actors) as more overall physically attractive than men such as Sean O Pry and Chico Lachowski, (male models). Nearly all of the men on the all time celebrity hot list that can sing, do so with a deeper voice than what is common currently on the radio and in current popular music in general such as Robert Downey Jr. on his album "The Futurist". Which is actually preferred by women as women rate deeper speaking voices as the most attractive, as well as deeper singing voices, and deeper, heartier laughing as not only the most attractive, but the most confident and intelligent, as well, in vocal attractiveness studies and also on the (now defunct) Rate my Voice App. There is also a study showing a linear correlation between vocal attractiveness and higher facial symmetry, a positive indicator of physical attractiveness.[68] While it is clear that male celebrities have gotten much more physically attractive over time, as there are barely any men from the black and white photo era on the 140 man all time hotlist, despite it being an "all time" list, and male modeling has become more popular than ever, the lack of deep voices on the radio suggests most male popular singers have gotten less physically and vocally attractive over time. For example in 1955, ridiculously deep voiced singer Tennessee Ford's song "16 Tons" went #1 on the Billboard's country music chart for ten consecutive weeks, then crossed over and held the number 1 position on the pop music chart for eight consecutive weeks.[69] A feat that would never be replicated by a singer with a voice as deep as his in the modern music environment. The deepest voice popular singer of the modern era is undoubtedly Tay Zonday known for the 135 million viewed Youtube hit single "Chocolate Rain", despite this song being 1 of the earliest viral videos on Youtube, and thus indicating there is a clear audience even in the modern day for ridiculously deep voiced singers, the song never got any radio play and the official release "Cherry Chocolate Rain" never lead to a record deal, suggesting there is some weird agenda by major record labels to push bad music. He still has a loyal fanbase and has about a half a million dollar net worth as an independent artist though. K pop singer Felix from the band "Stray Kids" is also known for his ridiculously deep singing voice, which is on the level of Tay Zonday, Tennessee Ford etc.

Trustworthiness, a trait women say, (at least in adult hood) is much more important than physical attractiveness even more so than men think, in one study[70]. Was even shown to be correlated with having more daughters, as on the "The Most Trustworthy Celebrities In The World" Ranker list the top 10 men (women's vote only) have 9 sons to 12 daughters[71]. Also funniness, another attractive trait in men is correlated with more daughters as on the "The 100+ Funniest People Of All Time" Ranker list the top 30 men (women's vote) have 40 sons to 49 daughters[72]. However it is worth noting the absolute funniest men were more likely to have sons with Bill Murray the #1 funniest man to women having 6 sons and only sons. Also, jock a trait women also find attractive in men is correlated to some extent with having daughters as on the "The Top NBA Players Of All Time" Ranker" list the top 40 men had 63 sons to 63 daughters and linearly more daughters than sons as greatness increases. However for the top 60 men its 95 sons to 82 daughters, so most men in the NBA having primarily sons[73]. Also for the "The Best MMA Fighters Of All Time" Ranker list there is a daughter bias for the top 20 men, 21 sons to 28 daughters, as well as for the top 40 men, 47 sons to 45 daughters, and finally a son bias for the top 60 men 63 sons to 55 daughters, linearly more daughters as greatness increases[74].

However among the "The Best Football Players Ever" Ranker list there is a blatant and huge son bias all the way through at 75 sons 55 daughters for top 40 men[75]. Also in baseball there is a son bias on the "The Greatest Baseball Players Of All Time" Ranker list with 16 sons 11 daughters for top 10 (sorted by female votes)[76]. Also there is a son bias for men known for their especially high dancing ability which goes hand in hand with greater athleticism. As there is a co-ordination subfactor and cardio endurance subfactor and it'd also be weakly correlated with strength, also would be associated with leg balance, probably strongly. As the men on the "Famous Male Dancers" Ranker list have 28 sons to 17 daughters[77]. The top 20 men on the "Famous Male Ballet Dancers" Ranker list have 11 sons to 8 daughters (so more than avg the amount of sons as per the 105 sons to 100 daughters norm)[78]. and finally on the "The Greatest Dancing Singers" Ranker list the top 20 men (women' vote) have 35 sons to 24 daughters[79]. Despite the clear son bias being most common, it makes sense there would be some overlap between high athleticism and having daughters as many of the men on the all time hot list are in shape, lean /muscular and known for their physically demanding roles etc. Also raw acting ability correlates with having more daughters as the top 20 greatest actors of all time, from the "The Best Actors In Film History" Ranker list, sorted by women's vote have 40 sons to 41 daughters.[80]

In summary, all the data indicates that every attractive, socially desirable trait in men leads to greater numbers of daughters so instead of hyper reproducing. Women can simply exclusively have sex with men whom they rate as most attractive, thus maximizing their chances for successful daughters. However there is a massive discrepancy again for how women rate men, and women's actual mate choices, even among the most desirable women, whom one would expect to be able to act on ideal preferences more. None of the wives of these hot all time celebrity men, have a history of exclusively dating handsome men, which people keep track of using the website, whosdatedwho.com. In fact, simply analyzing celebrity mating choices, reveals that attractive women are just as likely to date ugly men with facetatoos with a $100,000 dollar to million dollar net worth.

Men such as rapper Kid Buu as they are to date an avg looking man with a $450 million dollar net worth, men such as Floyd Mayweather Jr. Showing that although the manosphere is right that women rate higher income men as more attractive, and 6 figure earning men date beautiful women (at least when the men are also famous), the manosphere drastically overstates the importance of being say the richest man in the world, like Jeff Bezos was, or any other billionaire for that matter. Falsely believing that this makes them more likely to date more attractive women than men that only have a 100k to a million dollar net worth. Furthermore as per the generalized Trivers-Willard hypothesis ugly men are much more likely to have sons. With the men on the ugliest celebrities of all time list 4 times more likely to have boys than daughters.[81] Thus the physically "attractive", full head of hair in middle age husbands from the attractiveness heritability study likely had less sons, so a greater risk of being a genetic dead end with the bald by middle age, physically "unattractive" husbands likely having more sons. Violent men that beat their wives also have more sons, as well as big and tall men in general that aren't particularly handsome, as well as billionaires. Whom are likely ugly to average looking as no billionaires are on the most handsome male celebrities of all time list, women with an extremely dominant personality as well as a dominant, aggressive physiognomy are more likely to have sons.[82] [83] Also

Although these correlations are much smaller than pure attractiveness of men for gender ratio outcomes. Its clear that overall, "masculine" traits such as athleticism lead to more male offspring, as even the top 10 women on the WNBA all time great list (sorted by both gender votes) are twice as likely to have sons than daughters, the top 20 greatest female athletes of all time are also twice as likely to have sons than daughters.[84][85] Hypermasculine women, the women most likely to sire sons are often lesbian, and have abysmal reproductive success, not by lack of drive to reproduce like many extremely handsome men but as in men genuinely don't want to get them pregnant. In fact there was a viral meme in the incel community about trying to get "robust stacy" to produce Chad or at least hypermasculine sons, assuming they could "ascend" and find a partner. The meme showcases the sheer unwillingness men have to date actually masculinized women such as female bodybuilders, mma fighters etc. as the "masculinized" women in the meme are actually just super attractive, highly facially feminine female actresses with high angularity, taller height and slightly wider face.[86]

The women on the hottest female celebrities of all time Ranker list (sorted by men's votes only), have 147 sons to 140 daughters for the whole 187 woman list. So completely even with the the 5% more sons norm. Meaning that contrary to evo psychology, being a beautiful woman does not increase the likelihood of having more daughters, and as stated before, the pure attractiveness of the man is what accounts most for gender ratio outcomes. In fact as beauty ranking increased there was a bias toward the women having more sons, as the top 60 women had 56 sons to 47 daughters, meaning the most beautiful women were marrying and reproducing with men they themselves wouldn't rate as particularly attractive.[87] There is also a more sons than average gender ratio for the "Gorgeous Celebrity Women Who Are Also Geniuses" Ranker list.[88] 28 sons to 13 daughters, same for the "Most Beautiful Black Women in the World" Ranker list, 28 sons to 19 daughters.[89] The son bias replicates again in the "The Most Alluring Black Celebrity Women" Ranker List.[90] 34 sons to 28 daughters.

Linearly more likely to have sons the more attractive the woman, exactly the same as the all time female hotlist. The most desirable black women (top 10), have 5 times more sons than daughters. The women do date attractive men but those men, leave without marrying them and go on to date, marry and impregnate lesser known statistically less attractive women or no women at all. An averaged morph of the top 10 black women's 10 husbands they married and had children with vs 10 of the men they dated in the past whom ultimately ended up childless reveals, that the reproducers are more facially masculine, and darker skinned, likely because there are more professional athletes among the reproducers[91]. Taking the morph to the top 20 black women's 20 husbands they married and had children with vs 20 of the men they dated in the past whom ultimately ended up childless, reveals that they look identical[92].

There is research showing that greater income increases reproductive drive (while intelligence lowers it), IQ is linearly correlated with income though. Considering the fact the 20 reproducing males have a combined net worth of $1,995,050,000 and the 20 non reproducing males only $346,100,000, and they otherwise look identical and even both groups have members with high IQ traits, like Jay Z, a reproducer, reading at a 12th grade level in the 6th grade, and rapper Ryan Leslie, a non reproducer scoring a perfect 1600 on the SAT.[93][94] Its likely then that its simply the massively higher income of the reproducers, driving them to have children with and marry the statistically most beautiful women. A complete analysis of the top 10 girls whos boyfriends left them to reproduce with other girls shows their past boyfriends had a son bias 27 sons to 24 daughters and 49 sons to 45 daughters for the top 20 and 74 sons to 73 daughters for the top 30 (finally a daughter bias), so yes the guys more prone to daughters (and so therefore higher in rated attractiveness) dated relatively less attractive celebrity women, ended up leaving if they ever were with a beautiful woman relatively more attractive than other beautiful women, and left them to get lower sexual marketplace value women pregnant for sure, the most stand out example being Will Smith not staying with Tyra Banks and then marrying Jada Pinkett. This also reveals attractive black women are mostly dating men they wouldn't rate as particularly attractive.

So high male overall attractiveness ultimately predicts 1. Not wanting kids, as that is the most common reason for being childless 2. Having daughters 3. Marrying down relative to your peers. So different psychologically not just physically. The main psychological difference is attractive looking men are much less likely to be criminals, with Jeremy Meeks being the obvious exception and criminal men are much more likely to have sons, 76 sons to 65 daughters on the "List of Famous Gangsters" Rankers list, with this replicating in official studies as well[95]. The men on the "The Best Looking Male Rappers Today" Ranker list actually have a son bias all the way through, 63 sons to 50 daughters, 59 total men in the sample. This is likely not due to statistical chance but to the fact most of the rappers on that list are actually black criminals with real ties to organized crime, suggesting that the trait for criminality is stronger in producing sons than musical ability is for producing daughters[96].

Indeed the son bias replicates in the "The Best Drill Rappers Of All Time" Ranker list, 20 sons to 16 daughters[97]. Drill rappers are by far the most criminal musicians to ever record, even more so than the old school rappers such as Pac and Biggie, guys from N.W.A. Snoop Dogg etc. as the drill rappers are actually from Chicago's and New York's underclass, where gang violence is encouraged and supported by their own family members, while the old school rappers families where trying to get them out of the hood and away from crime. As historically the technology to record professional music was much more expensive so back in the days of N.W.A. even though they are from the hood it would still cost a fair bit of money to afford a professional quality home studio, which selects for higher IQ, tech savviness, conscientiousness etc. within their community. Now that recording technology is so cheap even the absolute poorest, slummiest, most socially backwards, low IQ, ghetto hoods can afford to produce professional quality music, popular rap music by black artists is only going to continue to get more tied to actual criminality as A.I. text prompt to professional quality beats continues to develop, making producing professional quality music even easier.

In the sample of the "The Greatest White Rappers of All Time" Ranker list, all of which have no connection to organized crime, there is a heavy daughter bias 30 sons to 39 daughters with proportionately more daughters being born the greater the rapper[98]. Although the "The Best Asian Actresses in Hollywood History" Ranker list is not a beauty list, the actresses are all fairly pretty in general, and again the son bias replicates with 26 to sons 14 daughters for the whole 53 women on the list. However there is a slight daughter preference for the best female actors but that quickly faded past top 10. Suggesting there is a small minority of Asian women with a legitimate marriage preference for attractive rated men. Indeed an analysis of the top 10 Asian actresses dating history reveals that their past boyfriends did go on to produce mostly daughters, therefore the small subset of Asian women with a marriage preference for attractive rated men is not just statistical chance. In a sample of mixed race Native American women "The Most Beautiful Native American Women" Ranker list there is a gender ratio bias for mostly daughters. 17 sons to 20 daughters. However this was actually just due to statistical chance as an analysis of their complete dating history shows their past boyfriends ended up having 99 sons to 89 daughters, so well above average chance for a son. Linearly more daughters for their old partners the lower SMV the woman (the relatively less attractive women married relatively higher rated attractiveness men).[99]

A daughter preference for an Asian women sample was again replicated in "The Most Beautiful Asian Women Of 2023" Ranker list. 20 sons to 20 daughters for the whole 108 women list. However again the most beautiful women have a preference for marrying men especially likely to produce a son, as there was a son gender ratio bias for the top 89 most beautiful Asian women[100]. The women on the "America’s Hottest CEOs" Ranker list have 11 sons to 14 daughters[101]. Unfortunately these women are not famous enough to look up their complete dating history on whosdatedwho.com. Still its likely that their daughter bias is just statistical chance considering how often and to the degree the son bias for attractive women replicates. The women in the "The Most Appealing Natural Redheads" beauty Ranker list have 12 sons to 12 daughters, linearly more daughters the more attractive the mother, and this turns out to not be statistical chance as their past boyfriends ended up having 10 sons to 11 daughters, not counting the past dating history of natural redhead Lindsay Lohan as her 88 past relationships would drastically skew the sample[102]. Still even she has a strong preference for dating very attractive rated men, such as Leonardo DiCaprio, Zac Efron, Gerard Butler etc. Red heads (both genders) are only 1-2% of the global population, which highlights just how rare a daughter producing husband preference really is, along with only a minority of Asian women. Also high singing ability in women correlates with having more sons as out of that all time most beautiful women ranker list 68% of the 187 women have clips on Youtube singing at a professional level. Also on the "The Best Singers Of All Time" Ranker list the top 20 women sorted by men's votes had 23 sons to 10 daughters[103], and on the "The Sexiest Musical Artists of All Time" Ranker list the top 20 women sorted by male voters had 18 sons to 10 daughters[104].

Considering the above data on women's actual revealed reproductive behavior, the male all time hotlist/high rated male attractiveness qualities are most definitely not a true representation of women's real desires. Revealed ideal preference is the man being super rich and most likely to have sons, so super rich to super ugly ratio. Meaning revealed ideal preference for women is especially ugly deca-billionaires, men such as Steve Ballmer (3 sons). With the most beautiful women having the absolute strongest preference for such men. Still as stated before billionaires are not actually more likely to date or marry more beautiful women. An analysis of over 500 of the richest billionaires, using the real time billionaire list reveals the top 80 or so marry average looking, extremely educated/high IQ women, however this dating pattern breaks down past the top 80 or so and most billionaires actually end up marrying and dating average looking women they happen to meet in their daily lives, that aren't extraordinarily educated (secretaries, women they meet on vacation, etc.)[105], so still some selection for higher IQ as these are women are hanging around or working in rich areas. Even though most billionaires marry average looking women, the white billionaire men are still incredibly fertile, with there only being a handful of childless ones. In fact white billionaires are hyper fertile with many of them having 5 or more children, and their male offspring although regress to the mean still usually have around 2 to 3 children, with decabillionaires whos sons end up also becoming decabillionares having the highest fertility. The richest billionares primarily have a degree in electrical engineering followed be economics, and then finally an M.B.A and its not uncommon for them to hold up to 3 degrees.

Although there are only a handful of black male billionaire's they too are hyper fertile. Asian, especially far East Asian billionaires are actually not hyper fertile in terms of having 5 or more children. They usually have around 2-3 children and most of the childless billionaires are far east Asian. Still 2 to 3 is fairly fertile for how low fertility Asia is right now. There is some evidence higher IQ men marry more attractive wives (although other evidence they don't). Still In this study 587 women's physical attractiveness was rated by interviewers (1-5) and were asked the educational level of their spouses: The least educated men's wives, 10 years of education, averaged about a 3.2/5 in looks and the most educated men's wives, 20 years of education averaged about 3.6/5 in looks, linearly more attractive wives the higher the education[106]. That's not a big effect size at all though, not even a full standard deviation between the least educated and most educated. Most men would probably be able to tell the wives of the most educated is the better looking group, but wouldn't be impressed by their actual looks level. That study is likely disappointing to most or at least many men, as the basic idea that all those extra years of schooling to get a Master's degree and then finally a PHD to potentially earn 6 figures or more would pay off with an outlierly attractive model looking trophy wife is pushed by at least some guys in the manosphere, such as dating guru Kevin Samuels.

Despite what he was saying, that all high earning men only want eye candy, reality is high earning men outside of the entertainment industry don't seem care about looks at all going by their marriage patterns and dating history, as even in the entertainment industry where almost every guy has history of dating and marrying outlierly physically attractive women, the richest straight guy in entertainment, billionaire Steven Spielberg has a history of dating much less physically attractive women than almost every notable guy in Hollywood[107]. So it appears these white billionaires are hyper biased toward producing sons in every possible way, as out of the top 500 billionaires there are 0 with any clips on Youtube showing any musical, comedic, acting, sports talent etc. Also there is a moderate correlation between female attractiveness and vocal attractiveness meaning super beautiful women are more likely to have a higher singing ability, and while physical attractiveness has near no heritability for sons, high musical ability has up 80% heritability[108], meaning if these guys were to actually marry models en mass it would skew the subsequent gender ratio of their future generations toward less sons, which is currently maladaptive for men in this era of global fertility crisis anyway, and the white male billionaires are a hyper adaptive group in every way.

In 2019 the United States Census Bureau released the first ever male fertility report showing a few stats about fatherhood: About 61.6% of men (74.7 million men) age 15 and over are fathers, and of those, 72.2 million men have a biological child. More than one in four men have a biological child under the age of 18. Of the men with biological children under age 18, four out of five live with at least some of those minor children. Of the 72.2 million fathers, 5.9 million (8.2%) have never been married. About 73.4% of fathers are married, 12.9% are divorced, 3.2% are widowed, and 2.3% are separated. About 1% of white, Asian and Hispanic men ages 15 to 19 are fathers, compared with about 3% of black men of the same age. Among men ages 20 to 29, 21.2% of white men, 24.9% of black men, 12.4% of Asian men, and 29.4% of Hispanic men are fathers. About 14% of fathers do not have a high school diploma, and roughly 12% of fathers hold a graduate or professional degree. Among men ages 40 to 50 years, men with a bachelor’s degree are less likely to have children than men with less than a high school diploma [109]. The fact that higher IQ men are less likely to have children, and also more likely to marry very ugly women or average looking women, and as other data shows, more likely to be atheist (so more likely to view marriage, where most reproduction happens as undesirable), and have less sexual success in general, suggests that despite the higher associated income, one metric that raises sexual market place value. They are less investing partners on average. However when these men do have children, the relationship between husband and wife is much more stable and unlikely to lead to divorce, with also greater paternity assurance. However there are contrary findings in certain European countries like Sweden that keep records of both iq (mandatory conscription) and fertility, those suggests very high iq men do not reproduce less but just have a longer delay, so this likely isn't a universal phenomenon.

See also[edit | edit source]

References[edit | edit source]

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Redpill

Game

GameOvergamingFrame (PUA)Signaling theoryRomantic idealizationCourtshipNeggingSexual market valueBeautyCharismaOrbiterBullyingLMSPUAAssholeTalk therapyIndicator of interestDominance hierarchyFuck-off signalsSocial circleSlayerNeurolinguistic programmingDatingOffline datingOnline datingBraggingAnabolic steroidGuitarClown GameJock

Misc. strategies

SEAmaxxingGymmaxxingTrannymaxxingGymmaxxingStatusmaxxingMoneymaxxingJestermaxxingCastratemaxxing

Pick Up Artists

R. Don SteeleRoss Jeffriesr/TRPReal Social DynamicsRooshVOwen CookPlayer SupremeWinston WuList of people in the seduction community

Ranks

Alpha maleAlpha femaleBeta maleBeta femaleOmega maleOmega femaleSigma maleVox DayDominance hierarchy

Personality

NeurotypicalNeurodivergentCoolCharismaStoicAssholeDark triadBorderline personality disorderNice guySimpApproach anxietyButterflies in the stomachConfidenceShynessLove shyHedonophobiaAsperger's SyndromeSocial awkwardnessIQRationalityEvolutionary psychologyTestosteroneEstrogen

Celibacy states

SexlessnessCelibacyIncelDry spellDating LimboSingleVirginWizardVolcelAsexualSex haverMarriedAscendedRelationship

Sexuality

HypergamyCopulationNudityCasual sexPump and dumpPromiscuityCock carouselRapeSexual harassmentBodyguard hypothesisBetabuxProvisioningMarriage proposalReproductive successSexual envySex driveBateman's principleSexual economics theoryResources for orgasmsSex ratioFemale passivitySexual attractionAttraction ambiguity problemBody attractivenessMuscle theoryFemale orgasmHuman penisHulseyismSexual conflictSexual modestySlutWhoreLordosisLeggingsPaternity assuranceMicrochimerismPartible paternityFeminine imperativePussy cartelRejection (dating)Ghosting (dating)Shit testAdverse effects of inceldomMaslow's hierarchy of needsCauses of celibacyHomosexualityHomocel hypothesisDemographics of inceldomTeleiophilic delayPolygynyPolyandryMonogamyMarriageTraditionalist conservatismMate guardingMate poachingMate choice copyingIntrasexual competitionFacial masculinityNeotenyParthenophiliaFisherian runawaySexual selectionCreepinessValidationChadsexualHybristophiliaScelerophiliaQuality and primitivity theorySexclamationTumescenceClitorisTesticlesLooks bottleneckGaitIncestpillPraying mantisoidMigraine

Other theories

Timeless quotes on womenFemales are socially ineptWomen-are-wonderful effectGynocentrismApex fallacyFeminismSexual revolutionFemale subordinationFemale hypoagencyFemale solipsismPrincess syndromeLife on tutorial modeFemale privilegeFake depressionFemale sneakinessFemme fataleBriffault's lawJuggernaut lawArguing with holes Halo effectFailo effectSinglismVariability hypothesisPsychiatryCognitive behavioral therapyAntifragilityTriggeredLife historyScientific Blackpill + Scientific Blackpill (Supplemental)Evolutionary mismatchMutationFeminizationBehavioral sinkPolitical correctness‎Affirmative actionVirtue signalingEugenicsEnvironmentalismMale scarcityRegression toward the meanMatthew effectPatriarchyTutorial IslandEmpathy gapWelfare gameX-factor theoryBuy a wheelchair to pick up women gameClown WorldProblematicIncel crisis coverup

Blackpill

Theory

Biological essentialismEugenicsEnvironmentalismTraditionalist conservatismFatalismBlackpillScientific BlackpillScientific Blackpill (Supplemental)Behavioral sinkHypergamyMatthew effectBeautyNeotenyFisherian runawayGood genes hypothesisDominance hierarchyIntrasexual competitionJ. D. UnwinSexual sublimationFemale subordinationSexual modestyOnline datingPhysiognomyPersonalityEvolutionary psychologySub8 theory

Marriage

SlutMonogamyMarriageArranged marriagePolygynyPolyandry

Anti-Lookism

LookismPuahate.com

Pills

BlackpillRacepillHeightpillDickpillBaldpillShitpillDogpillBirdpillTeen love pill

It's over

Cope or ropeCopeRopingLay down and rotInbreeding depressionOutbreeding depressionMutationFeminizationSocial epistasis amplification modelAtavismReproductive successDemographics of inceldomTeleiophilic delaySampo generationCauses of celibacyAdverse effects of inceldomBrain rotEvolutionary mismatchBehavioral sinkRegression toward the meanPeaked in high schoolFOMOSexual envyNo x for your yJaw is law

Incel History, books & scholars

Historical figures

Protocels: Anthony PerkinsCharles BukowskiCharles FourierChristine ChubbuckDaniel JohnstonFriedrich NietzscheGiacomo LeopardiH. P. LovecraftHenry CavendishHenri de Toulouse-LautrecHenry FlyntIsaac NewtonJeremy BenthamJoseph MerrickLudwig van BeethovenNikola TeslaMary Ann BevanOliver HeavisideOtto WeiningerGueules casséesQuasimodoTed KaczynskiVincent van GoghAdolf HitlerThomas HobbesOswald SpenglerJohn Ruskin

Protochads: Arthur SchopenhauerDrukpa KunleyGenghis KhanGiacomo CasanovaJohn Humphrey NoyesHercules

Other categories: Notable incelsHigh IQ celibatesAcademics who were incelHermits

History articles

Timeless quotes on womenHistory of female sex-favoritismIncelosphere timelineSexual revolutionReproductive successLumpenproletariat

Books

A History of CelibacyCreepFacial Aesthetics: Concepts and Clinical DiagnosisHoney Money: The power of erotic capitalKill All NormiesMännliche Absolute BeginnerMarsSex and CharacterSex and CultureSexual Utopia in PowerShyness and LoveSind Singles anders?The Great UnmarriedThe Love-Shy Survival GuideThe Manipulated ManThe Myth of Male PowerUnfreiwillig SingleUnberührtWhateverWomen As Sex VendorsIncel: A novel

Authors, scholars, researchers, incelologist and sexologists

Angela NagleAntoine BanierArne HoffmannBeate KüpperBrian GilmartinCamille PagliaCarol QueenCatherine HakimDan SavageDavid BussDenise DonnellyDustin SheplerElizabeth BurgessFranco BasagliaIrenäus Eibl-Eibesfeldt‎‎J. D. UnwinThe Jolly HereticJordan HolbrookJordan PetersonKristin SpitznogleLaura CarpenterMenelaos ApostolouMichel ClouscardMichel HouellebecqMike CrumplarOlaf WickenhöferPaul MaloneyReid MihalkoRhawn JosephRobin HansonRobin SprengerRoger DevlinRoy BaumeisterSatoshi KanazawaScott AaronsonScott AlexanderSylvain PoirierTalmer ShockleyTim SquirrellVeronika KracherWalter M. GallichanWillhelm ReichWilliam CostelloVox Day

Miscellaneous

Incels.wiki in news and academiaTroubadourDonnelly studyConfessions of Leftover Men