Talk:Blackpill

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Expansion[edit source]

Any ideas on how to expand the blackpill article? I'd like to expand on each of the five thesises with data. You're free to propose ideas to me here or on Discord. Mahlo#2892

I would love to contribute. I've made my first edit (removing the poetry intro from this article). We get one chance to blackpill normies, so we have to 'cut our darlings' and get to the point. Also, I dislike that each edit has to be mod-approved before it goes live. It's very unsatisfying to contribute that way, and makes it impossible to run my regular wiki workflow. Limerencel (talk) 04:48, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Considered adding[edit source]

I was considering adding the following sentence: "One of the most alluring aspects of the black pill is that it gives vulnerable people an ideological basis whereby they could reject the barrage of "self-improvement" advice that is ubiquitous in media, advertising and day-today platitudes. As such, it serves as a shield for people who may otherwise have faced financial or emotional exploitation." Thebreeze (talk) 15:07, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

If you can make the statement more neutral, that'd be fine. Not all incel forums promote the blackpill conceptWilliam (talk) 16:35, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Nevermind[edit source]

Ignore todays drama. There is now consensus on the lede btw various political factions settled via PM. William (talk) This lede in particular was agreed upon by various political factions https://incels.wiki/w/index.php?title=Blackpill&oldid=27289

Proposal for new lede with focus on tribalism with the redpill[edit source]

A blackpill is pill jargon for an uncomfortable truth (a redpill) that nothing can be done about barring profound changes.

In the manosphere, the blackpill refers to a movement that emerged in opposition to the self-improvement enthusiasm of the redpill movement. Redpillers believe in a collection of "dating tricks" such as pickup artististry, game and bodybuilding. Blackpillers reject the long-term effectiveness of these tricks, regard them chadsplaining, and claim that for many men it is futile to fake confidence and get fit without plastic surgery, or even systemic changes or changes to human nature itself. It's over for such men and it's not their own fault, but a result of their looks, genes or other deterministic circumstances, as well as women's financial independence and freedom of sexual choice allowing them to ruthlessly choose based on looks. This resulted in considerable tribalism about the importance of looks between the redpill and blackpill communities driving many blackpillers to claim looks is all that matters. Other than that, blackpill and redpill knowledge is nearly identical.

Other blackpillers take a broader look at systemic impediments that aggravate men's dating success, for example the effect of affirmative action for women causing women to outearn men and making it harder for men to impress women due to women's preference to date up (hypergamy). Most blackpillers see women's emancipation, as well as a corruption of the gender roles as the main cause of the incel epidemic and increasingly unsteady sexual relationships. Many blackpillers hence propose returning to traditions, enforcing monogamy and restoring the natural subordination of women.[1] Many blackpillers regard the abolition of sexual sublimation as an existential threat and see modern society as a behavioral sink. Some blackpillers believe that a social collapse is inevitable and therefore advocate that ugly men should adopt a fatalistic and defeatist outlook.[2] Most blackpillers believe in the greatest happiness principle and are opposed to degeneracy. Most are atheist, but some promote cultural Christianity or other religions. Most blackpillers believe in evolutionary psychology and biological determinism, in which they scientifically ground their ideas. The science behind the blackpill is being collected in the Scientific Blackpill article and on the subreddit /r/BlackPillScience.

Not all blackpillers are incels (noncel blackpillers) and not all incels are blackpillers. Some public intellectuals have raised issues closely related to the blackpill. For example, the Norwegian sexologist Kristin Spitznogle largely agrees with the lookism aspect of the blackpill. The Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson agrees with the systemic issue of hypergamy and lack of enforced monogamy causing inceldom.

There's nothing wrong about what you wrote, and you can use that verbatim, just good to source it if you can.William (talk) 12:23, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Kept the vast majority of what you wrote in the lede[edit source]

However, it was too long so slimmed it down. If you want to go into further detail about redpill vs. blackpill, a separate section may be good.William (talk) 22:49, 4 December 2019 (UTC)