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Talk:Women in STEM: Difference between revisions
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tl;dr, framing it as "do co-ed classes improve the incels situation", and then stuffing the paragraph with correlates is odd when co-ed classes clearly help incels (a tiny bit). Framing it as "how much do they help" is more accurate. The only reason someone might take such objection to this would be if they thought that co-ed classes ''hurt'' incels chances, which is just not accurate.[[User:William|William]] ([[User talk:William|talk]]) 21:20, 25 December 2019 (UTC) | tl;dr, framing it as "do co-ed classes improve the incels situation", and then stuffing the paragraph with correlates is odd when co-ed classes clearly help incels (a tiny bit). Framing it as "how much do they help" is more accurate. The only reason someone might take such objection to this would be if they thought that co-ed classes ''hurt'' incels chances, which is just not accurate.[[User:William|William]] ([[User talk:William|talk]]) 21:20, 25 December 2019 (UTC) | ||
: the implications of this study was very limited as it only looked at averages, did not break down by social status. e.g. it could be that high status males have more sex in mixeded, but low status males less, so it cancels out most of the effect. evidence for this in the proposal below. [[User:Bibipi|Bibipi]] ([[User talk:Bibipi|talk]]) 21:51, 25 December 2019 (UTC) | |||
On a more personal note, I went to sex-segregated school my whole life, there is no way in hell you can convince me that shit is good for incels in the absence of arranged partnerships. Like half my classmates from those things are still incels. The idea that spending no time around women growing up would be a boon to your social skills with women is just insane. On the other hand, co-ed classes can be miserable too, but at least you have a shot.[[User:William|William]] ([[User talk:William|talk]]) 21:24, 25 December 2019 (UTC) | On a more personal note, I went to sex-segregated school my whole life, there is no way in hell you can convince me that shit is good for incels in the absence of arranged partnerships. Like half my classmates from those things are still incels. The idea that spending no time around women growing up would be a boon to your social skills with women is just insane. On the other hand, co-ed classes can be miserable too, but at least you have a shot.[[User:William|William]] ([[User talk:William|talk]]) 21:24, 25 December 2019 (UTC) | ||
: I suspect both are bad, but mixed slightly worse (evidence below). [[User:Bibipi|Bibipi]] ([[User talk:Bibipi|talk]]) 21:51, 25 December 2019 (UTC) | |||
== Proposal for section == | |||
'''Females in STEM and STEMcels rates''' | |||
While women may be corrupting the [[STEM]] fields, having co-ed classes seems to be beneficial for overall sexual activity. According to a study by Ivy [[penis|Wong]], students in single-sex classes report later onset of dating experience and fewer dating partners than members of co-ed classes,<ref>https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-018-1187-6</ref> however the effect sizes were small (d = .2) and in most other measures of sexual activity there were no significant effects. | |||
Also even though the most dominant students may have more sex, the least dominant ones may have less. | |||
According to the [[Donnelly Study]], some incels report gender segregation at work and lack of exposure to females in general as a cause of their celibacy, especially among male incels.<ref>http://cda.morris.umn.edu/~meeklesr/celibacy.html</ref> A study of Redditors found lack of exposure to the opposite gender as the ~9th most common cause of their singledom and 4.70% of all responses (see [[causes of inceldom]]). | |||
On the other hand, most STEM jobs are fairly high-status positions and hence such women are expected to become more choosy about other men's incomes (see [[hypergamy]]), especially due to the highly competitive nature of the field. In addition, with [[metoo]] and other anti-[[harassment]] measures, the workplace is becoming unpopular for dating, e.g. "meeting through coworkers" has declined 50% since 1990 despite decreasing gender segregation.<ref>https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Meeting_online_is_now_the_primary_way_relationships_are_formed</ref> | |||
Today, as many as 28% of men avoid one-on-one meetings with female work collegues.<ref>https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#27.25_of_men_report_avoiding_one-on-one_meetings_with_female_work_colleagues</ref> | |||
Many workplaces actively discourage romances. | |||
Also, even though sex-segregation has decreased, incel rates are at all-time high (see [[demographics]]), which is the opposite trend on would expect if mixed sexed would help alleviating the incel epidemic. | |||
Presence of females might be a detriment for the romantic success of [[omega male]]s because males engage in more bullying and punishing in presence of females.<ref>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053535711000321</ref> One study found that boys attending coeducational high schools experience more bullying than boys who attend single-sex high schools (χ2<sub>[1, N=13,134]</sub> = 48.55, p<.001).<ref>https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271948395_Patterns_of_Bullying_in_Single-Sex_Schools</ref> Thus, in presence of women, omega males might have reduced chance to build status and social competence and hence may face higher incel rates. | |||
This would match an anecdote by [[Jordan Peterson]] in which only few male university students got to have sexual relationships despite a surplus of female students.<ref>https://youtube.com/watch?v=jsMqSBB3ZTY?t=293</ref> In some incel forums, incels also lamented that they have many female coworkers, but are ignored by them.<ref>http://redditsearch.io/?term=female%20coworkers%20invisible&dataviz=false&aggs=false&subreddits=braincels&searchtype=comments&search=true&start=0&end=1576953976&size=100</ref> This anecdotes further solidify that no improvements for STEMcels can be expected. | |||