Talk:Virgin vs. Chad

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Used in anti-incel context?[edit source]

AFAIK the meme is like 99% of the time used to compare some looser type vs some successful type not to shame virgins.

Anti-incels are a vocal minority and most find them more pathetic than incels. --unsigned comment by User:Bibipi

It's not used that way in incel forums (that often), however variation of the chad vs. incel thing are everywhere on twitter and Facebook, usually repurposed as virgin x vs chad y, and

Using the virgin vs. chad meme in a virgin hostile way, eg was seen about 20 times in the last 2 hours on Twitter They aren't at all a minority.

The implication in all these (posted in the last two hours, and there's a lot more, being the incel thing is bad, and the chad thing is good, that in itself is anti-incel. William (talk) 01:14, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Obviously not wanting to be incel is not anti-incel in a way that is bad, but continuously associating inceldom with everthing possibly negative is just appealing to people's prejudices about incels, and therefore incel in a bad wayWilliam (talk) 01:32, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Not seeing much proof of virgin shaming here. Everyone knows the most dominant/successful man gets the chicks, but that's a taboo. So people like using the viring vs Chad meme for the satirical factor. Bibipi (talk) 01:38, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, associating anything possibly bad with inceldom is in no way anti-incel /sarcasm, I expanded the thoughts on the article itself. The main circulators of the meme are not incels, nor are they using the defition you put in the OP usually. Virgin shaming is mainstream. Incel-defending is not. William (talk) 01:41, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
I also encourage you to type "incel" into the twitter search bar (or any non-manospherian site, and count how many references are hostile toward incels vs not. Not just negative, but negative and outright hostility. This mentality also extends to the memes that may have originated in the incelosphere and incel terminology in general.William (talk) 01:46, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
Incel shaming is fairly common because some misconceive incels as a terrorist organization due to poor media reporting. Still, the virgin vs Chad meme is rarely if ever virgin shaming, as far as i can tell. Anti-incels tend to hate this meme, afaict. I've seen memes like this on IT: They reject the notion of dominance status altogether. Bibipi (talk) 02:17, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
"Still, the virgin vs Chad meme is rarely if ever virgin shaming" Associating literally anything bad with virgins is virgin shaming, especally when virgin shaming is mainstream. Also it is simply not true inceltears does not like the incel vs chad meme, in fact they seem to like it more than any incel forum. Countless threads with images associating anything bad with inceldom. Just a small selection of images they use in reference to incel vs chad, on their own

Inceltears might say they don't believe in dominance hierachies but they go on and on about hierarchies of confidence and social skill they believe in, and that they believe are rational sorters for reproductive success William (talk) 02:34, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Regardless if inceltears is 100% tongue-in-cheek or not, most anti-incels or people who speak incelphobically or incelmaciously are not formally so.

Twitterers and other random netzens are not necesssarily consciously being anti-incel, most people don't virgin shame in a conscious, oor consciously malicious manner, it's just part of mainstream discourse William (talk) 02:36, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Anyway all this aside, my main point is that associating literally anything negative with inceldom is not helpful to incels and is anti-incel. People need space to think of themselves as at least somewhat positive or redeemable in order to escape from a situation that might be negative.William (talk) 02:41, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

The re purposed memes could instead highlight the positive behavioural features of incels. Features that are necessary or good post-civilization/industry but women have not had the time to evolve to appreciate given this quick jump into industry and civilisation we've had. But they usually do not as one of the common themes of this meme is the total rejection of the incel, and emotional association with a humanized incel with bad thingsWilliam (talk) 02:43, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

"Associating literally anything bad with virgins is virgin shaming" Not necessarily. It could also redpill on the fact that status matters. Or it may simply be used for the crude/offensive humor. Bibipi (talk) 02:46, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
The memes are about associating anything negative with being incel. Everyone already knows that being incel is not fun. It's just additional emotional negativity association pinned to incels, in an extreme way. Adding humor to something doesn't strip it of it's implications. Regardless this debate has gone on too long. If you disagree with my commentary strongly you can add your disagreement section in the article itslef. Trying to censor an admin's commentary through one-two images scattered in mountains of assertions as proof of your opinion somehow holding water... is not a productive use of anyones timeWilliam (talk) 02:54, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
Only commenting on one of your links because all of them are essentially the same meme: <- this juxtaposes "pirating" as chad and "not pirating" as virgin to basically say that those who oppose pirating don't have balls. so is using people's suffering in jokes insensitive? yes. is it malintentioned towards virgins? possibly, but i'd argue more likely it's simply a crude joke to get more attention. even a certified psychologist who wrote a bunch of pro-incel blog posts used the meme this way: i think IT also often posts this stuff to make fun of how incels care so much about virginity. this is, at least, what i've often seen in the comments. i'm disinclined to complain about this because people are way too sensitive already. complaining about this only gives anti-incels a free pass to complain about insensitive speech in incel communities Bibipi (talk) 03:22, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
I really don't care how sensitive incels are about being made fun of. I just care when they are being made fun of in an unhelpful way. Men are allegedly given space to be sensitive. If feminists make fun of incels for being sensitive, that makes them look bad, not incels. As feminists claim to care about men sharing their feelings. If you wish to add disagreement in the article you are free to do soWilliam (talk) 03:36, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
"As feminists claim to care about men sharing their feelings." right, but this is possibly an unattainable goal anyhow and one borne out of female solipsism and virtue signaling rather than rational/realistic thought. i don't know for sure, but my hunch is men would not even feel better if admitted more sensitivity because it does not feel earned. human cognition and emotion is all about earning things (and about looks and charisma) Bibipi (talk) 04:22, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
probably only psychopaths can really embrace things they have not earned because receiving support is actually a low status signal saying "he needed help, therefore he is a failure". it also arouses envy Bibipi (talk) 04:47, 19 November 2019 (UTC)