Talk:Asperger's syndrome

Unsigned IP

"Should probably explain these ~mysterious~ female cues to our aspie brethren..." Disrespectful. aspie No. 95.26.52.58

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The dramatic rise of autism in developed countries, could possibly be entirely based on bluepilled society pushing the FALSE CULTURAL AGENDA that "looks dont matter bro."

In the wodaabe african tribe, the males are selected by women to be husbands based on physical beauty. Basically the whole tribe is lookism blackpilled.

The men practice fake smiling several hours a day from an young age. So much so that their fake smiles are indistinguishable from real smiles by the time they reach adulthood.

This eases tension between the men and allows them to co-operate more, also they do not go to school, so the men are not put into a rigid class based social hierarchy where status varies wildly depending on grade level. So all of the young men, are roughly more or less the same social status. This allows the young men to co-operate even further. Also the men are raised together with help from extended family. (cousins, aunts, uncles)

It is entirely possible the rigid social hierarchy of the modern school system + social hierarchy of companies, and social isolation from extended family, in the case of a nuclear family, selects for autistic traits, like lack of empathy, lack of smiling (dominant behavior), psychopathy, hi intelligence, all traits found in CEO's of fortune 500 companies at a higher rate than the general population.

Basically a successful autist can acquire great wealth and prestige, but most autists are unsuccessful.

Parenting style also could also possibly add to children becoming autistic. Placing kids in front of the television, having them play video games all day. Allowing sons to engage in autistic activities ALL day like building model airplanes.

Meanwhile in the wodaabe tribe, male children are doing facial exercises several hours a day and constantly socializing, not indulging in "things" but in people, each other.

Wodaabe men flexing their facial muscles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh2pOqViOyo

Mikey (talk) 17:16, 3 November 2019 (UTC) Mikey

Lede

Is too long. Please move more writing into the body sections. Good writing though :) William (talk) 17:04, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

There was a part wherein psycopaths and people with high functioning autsim(aspergers) were erroneously compared by a critical misunderstading of the role of empathy.

I don't know how to edit to delete parts in a wiki that are incorrect but anyway. This whole part is incorrect. If you read Baron's work without misinterpretation, like in his book the science of evil, you see that he distinguishes empathy is different ways. It is not the same to classify psychopaths (which is under the umbrella term of Anti social personality disorder, along with sociopath) and high functioning autistics in the same basket because both have "low empathy". There's 7 different regions in the brain that comprise of an empathy circuit, autistic people and psychopaths do not have the same regions affected. Dr. Baron distinguished between affective and cognitive empathy, where affective empathy affects a person's ability to be affective or feel affection with others, for example they did F-mri (functional magnetic resonance imaging) on psychopaths and showed them people that are distressed, or being hurt and they noticed under activity in the region of the brain that is supposed to make them feel empathy with what they are seeing (example they didn't feel anything when showed a video of a person playing the piano and having the lid shut, crushing his fingers). Whereas high functioning autists had this region intact and were able to feel empathy. But a psychopath's cognitive empathy, that is in relation to social cues, making conversation, reading body language etc... is intact. They can easily do that because this part of their brain functions properly. This is what makes them dangerous. However in autism, their cognitive empathy is affected, making them "socially awkward" wherein they have trouble making eye contact, conversation, reading body language etc.. They have trouble trying to figure out what the other person is thinking or feeling. Which by consequence makes psychopaths and people with autism complete opposites. --previously unsigned IP comment 213.175.190.165

I'm well aware of the distinctions between affective empathy (sympathy, basically) and cognitive empathy (theory of mind, ability to read and appropriately response to social cues). I actually think that the cognitive empathy deficits of autism are often misinterpreted, in the sense that it is often stated or implied that their difficulty in social interactions is chiefly due to inability to 'read people' properly (though they obviously do have some issues with this) and most of their social issues actually stem from their lack of ability to express emotions properly, their social awkwardness, physical clumsiness, weird interests, their concern with the facts and truth over social niceties, overly aloof and flat affect etc, that makes it difficult to correctly navigate dominance hierarchies and build social relationships. Basically blaming autistics for being 'defective' in this sense, like in an attempt to excuse the exclusionary treatment they often receive because of their weirdness and awkwardness. Even Baron-cohen's research on the ability of autistics to read facial expressions and infer emotional states from voice tonality have generally shown weak effects, afaik. Though much of this may be down to the fact that autism is a somewhat vaguely defined disorder that can vary significantly in its symptomology and the intensity of these deficits.

The part comparing psychopaths to autists is from a paper which attempts to explain the existence of the condition on the grounds of it being a maladaptive version of psychopathy or ADHD, basically. Which I think is an interesting theory (though the historically adaptive part may come from overlap with the BAP (broader autism phenotype) traits, not really psychopathy). I was aiming to be as comprehensive in this article in detailing all the various theories of the etiology of autism. I agree that part is mainly speculative and could stand to be clarified, as I was overly hasty in using the simple term 'empathy' to describe the deficit of cognitive empathy that is a core trait of autism. I'm planning on rewriting significant parts of this article soon anyway. Altmark22 (talk)

Why this article is retarded

You're using "Aspergers" as a catch-all for autism, when that's just not the case. Aspergers up until 2010 was a separate diagnosis from classical Autism (which actually is a manifestation of the "extreme male brain". Classical autism (which can include high functioning autists but is basically always the case with low functioning autists) has key differences with Aspergers that separate it from actual, traditional Autism.

Classical Autism (High Functioning): > Language delays > Sensory issues > Higher testosterone overall > Significantly higher spatial IQ than verbal IQ (which is already a difference in IQ between men and women, but taken to its extreme in autism) > Extremely variable IQ (also already a difference between men and women in IQ, likely the source of the stereotype that autists are either sped retards or complete geniuses) > Special interests often restricted to technological/non-people-related things only (trains, computers, math, etc.) > Usually with comorbid language disorder (even if no intellectual disability), less "monotone" and more "special ed" sounding voice > Often comorbid gastrointestinal issues (likely due to hormone imbalances)

Aspergers: > No language delay > Less severe sensory issues (if at all) > Significantly higher verbal IQ than spatial IQ (common with almost all mental disorders except classical autism) > Special interests can often include humanities (like history, etc.) > More likely to have other mental disorders besides Aspergers > No comorbid language disorder

Basically, Aspergers virgins vs classically Autistic chads. Well, not really given the classically autistic are even worse at socializing than Aspergers people, given they have much more impaired language skills. - 2601:644:9100:DA90:490C:48FB:8AC9:22F2

Don't think you know anything about this topic that I don't, midwit. Altmark22 (talk)

My point is that Aspergers and actual autism have different pathologies and Aspergers clearly isn't a manifestation of the extreme male brain like classical autism. If it were there then Aspergers people wouldn't be so effeminate - 2601:644:9100:DA90:490C:48FB:8AC9:22F2

The tone of your edit was very hostile so you should expect a hostile response when you act like that. As the article already notes (and I think you are being autistically pedantic over the title of the article, which could indeed be changed to just Autism Spectrum Disorder) concept of an "extreme male brain" in autism doesn't fully align with cultural conceptions of masculinity. Autistic individuals might exhibit behavioral androgyny due to prenatal hormones or brain dysfunctions, which could be more challenging for male autistics due to women's (and societies') general demand that males act in a masculine manner to ascend dominance hierarchies and achieve mating success, indeed partially leading to the outcomes discussed in the article.
The IQ profile distinction between "high-functioning autism" and "Asperger's syndrome" doesn't seem overly strong. A meta-analysis (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349876427_Review_of_Cognitive_Characteristics_of_Autism_Spectrum_Disorder_Using_Performance_on_Six_Subtests_on_Four_Versions_of_the_Wechsler_Intelligence_Scale_for_Children) indicates similar overall cognitive patterns when considering full-scale IQ. Though some studies show relatively higher spatial abilities in "high-functioning autism," this could be due to high verbal abilities in "Asperger's" samples masking similar absolute spatial performance. The verbal index in Wechsler tests is more g-loaded than block design, suggesting the key distinction isn't spatial vs. verbal abilities, but rather high vs. low verbal skills (with lower verbal performance in HFA mainly driven by poorer comprehension subtest performance and lower overall IQ).
A few thoughts, "Masculinized" autists might have lower overall IQ but can hyperspecialize in niche areas related to masculine cognitive profiles due to hyperfocus and low social sensitivity. Their lower "comprehension" subtest scores further indicate this low social salience/high object orientation profile, aligning with the proposed masculine vs. feminine autism subtypes. In contrast, "Asperger's" individuals show higher social salience, potentially due to their generally higher IQ and lower autistic traits. This heightened social awareness may be reflected in their strong performance on the "comprehension" subtest, which partly measures social understanding (https://pumpkinperson.com/2023/09/21/norming-the-comprehension-subtest/).
The higher matrix reasoning performance among HFA emphasized in older autism studies might be linked to lower general intelligence loading of those tests (https://www.sebjenseb.net/p/matrix-reasoning-is-a-mediocre-test), favoring lower IQ samples. Lower IQ autists may outperform on such tests due to hyperfocus and weaker central coherence (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3606476/).
A consistent finding is lower processing speed in autistics compared to their full-scale IQ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9296421/). Given females' generally higher processing speed (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886917302520), this could indicate a masculinized cognitive profile in all autism types, contributing to social deficits as processing speed is likely vital for social interaction to flow smoothly. So that could also be discussed. Altmark22 (talk)

Damn, that response shows some dedication. One could even say it's autistic levels of dedication. To be sure though, Aspergers Syndrome and HFA (Kanner's Syndrome) def aren't the same thing (and proper autism should prob have its own page) - 2601:644:9100:da90:41e0:31f8:de20:622d