Talk:Tomboy

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War on Tomboys as Proxy to "Revolt Against Society"[edit source]

The arguments put forth by (the Complementary Argument) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZ3vbvpH7w

  • The ones that are attracted to Tomboys are effeminate men
  • Tomboys are effectively a fetish
  • There is a causal link between Tomboys and effeminate men
  • Tomboys are less likely to be motherly (more likely to be effectively infertile), thus aiding modernity
  • (Lack of noting whether there is a mating mechanism behind this)

The arguments put forth by Vee (the Assortative Argument) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAoXVqw6XW8

  • Tomboys are attracted to masculine men
  • Effeminate men are just salty that they cannot have the "physique" OR the women
  • Effeminate men are the main agenda of modernity (ease of conquering)
  • The private space of mating and reproduction shall not be infringed
  • (Lack of noting whether Tomboys and Infertility are part of modernity)

The aggregate idea of the two videos:

  • There is a "balancing loop" effect on male and female masculinity preference (Masculine woman want Masculine men, Masculine men want feminine women)
  • There is a rift between Tomboyism and Effeminate men as the main source of the reproductive decline, but there are clear signs that Tomboyism/Feminism moves first.
    • First Wave
      • Tomboyism started with the 19th Amendment (1919-1920)
      • Effeminate men started with the Homophile movement (1945–1969)
    • Second Wave
      • Female career path started with The Equal Pay Act (1963) in the midst of the Homophile movement
      • Effeminate men's Gay Liberation Movement started after 1969
    • Question: what is the percentage of biological males and females in these "Gay" organizations again?
    • Yes, Masculinized women are mostly feminists https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2014.01011
  • How do Social Media (e.g. TikTok, Instagram) and Dating Apps (e.g. Snapchat, Tinder) affect sexual dynamics?
    • Problem 1: Masculinization dictates Short-Term Mating Preference, Feminization dictates Long-Term Mating Preference Postcel (talk) 00:01, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
    • Problem 2: Masculinization, Feminization and Parenting Effort
I had some stuff related to this topic saved, but it all concerned the effect the Bem Sex-Role Inventory had on assortative/disassortative mating preferences. Anyway if this was organize and written up it could serve as the starting point for this article. This thing is a bit hard to read but I'll make a few loose comments:

(Masculine woman want Masculine men, Masculine men want feminine women). There some research that shows this is indeed the case, will link if I can find it. There is moderate assortative mating for facial masculinity, at least.
Yes, Masculinized women are mostly feminist. Would be good to make a section on that.
The ones that are attracted to Tomboys are effeminate men. I think there could be a good case to be made for that. It may tie into Otto Weininger's Bisexual theory (which is still influential) where opposite 'essences' attract, so this would predict a moderately effeminate man would tend to like masculinized women and not men outright. So they could have similar traits to effeminate homosexual men, just less pronounced. It may also be a desire for a more agentic women to basically play the male role in courtship as this type of 'fetish' seems most popular on places where socially awkward/anxious male virgins etc. often gather like 4chan. Altmark22 (talk) 09:11, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

TomBoy Oneitis and Relation to Feminism[edit source]

High-T males are attracted to more feminized females https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0018506X08002298

A counter to this would simply be that more feminized females are more attractive on average and that viewing these women raises their T, as many studies have found. (though that was for pornography, still they didn't seem to consider any sort of interaction like this). also they found this "these findings suggest that men were not more likely to choose masculine women over feminine women when testosterone was low than when testosterone was high". So that also sort of counters the 'effeminate men like masculinized women more'. Though this is only a low powered saliva test study. Altmark22 (talk) 09:37, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

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