Talk:Pretty Boy

Is this not common knowledge?

Is the rise in general androgyny going on for 20 plus years straight since the 2,000s in mainstream culture uncommon knowledge in the mano/incelosphere?

"Androgyny has been gaining more prominence in popular culture in the early 21st century."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgyny#Contemporary_trends

Mikey (talk) 07:10, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Should we add the increase of Pretty Boys in media such as Bishonen as a subcategory/different page?

I tend to see more recently among female communities and fandoms, to be an increasingly large popularity in both Anime and IRL about pretty boys in media, a good example being the "Bishonen", with more androgynous males alongside homofetishism and Androheterophobia within said groups for things like "BL" (Boy's Love) I think it would be important to understand how women find these said men attractive in their media akin to how they find "Traditional" more "alpha" men that have also been very prevalent within communities of teenage/Young Adult girls and women for the longest time in YA media such as Fifty Shades of Grey and Twilight.

It could be added as a subsection to the "rise of androgyny" section, as that discusses the increase in depictions of androgynous people in the media as an ideal. This also overlaps with female hebephilia, so a discussion of that could be interesting.Altmark22 (talk) 04:00, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Might it also be the case that the increase in the prevalence of pretty boys indicates a possible decrease in sexual dimorphism between men and women? If this is indeed the case, then hypothetically speaking, it hints at selection toward monogamy. We can infer this from the fact that male Gorillas are nearly twice the size of female Gorillas, indicating a polygynous mating whereas the Gibbon (whom features a monogamous mating system) has almost no sexual dimorphism. The reason for this seems to be because of male competition over access to females. In polygynous systems, like that of the Gorilla, male-male competition over females is intense and will result in only the largest males mating with all of the females, whereas in the Gibbon male-male competition is scant and thus there are no selective pressures for males to be larger. Thus it follows that if male-male competition is abated, sexual dimorphism will reduce. It seems to be the case that humans have undergone a significant reduction in sexual dimorphism since we were still hominids. As our recent ancestors exhibited a polygnous mating system, the introduction of monogamy has caused a long-term reduction in sexual-dimorphism overall.

My speculation amounts to this, the increase of the prevalence in pretty boys signals a possible decrease in sexual dimorphism which would indicate selection toward monogamy. However, I find this hard to believe since rates of infidelity and divorce are much higher than they were only 70 years ago; sexual debut amongst teenagers seems to be earlier and earlier with each passing day (something typical of r-selected behaviour). I find this quite perplexing as to why there might be an increase in androgyny but a simultaneously shift away from monogamous behaviours. I was wondering if any of you had any ideas that could possibly remediate this seemingly contradictory set of events.

-K

Perhaps we can refer back to CSR selection model? Life history theory has some new hypothesis on the discrepency between stabilty and polygamy. People who supports monogamy are often more sexually dimorpic, whilst those that are more hypergamous are more likely to be biologically masculinized (female selectivity increases as her Digit Ratio increases), constrastly those that are more polygamous are more likely to be biologically feminized.

I'm not extremely well versed in the CSR selection model, but from a cursory reading from the article I believe I've abstracted the gist of what you were hinting at. It seems that a transition from femminism to traditional patriarchy explains some of the behaviours. It explains why marriage rates are down and divorce is up as, though we don't have actually polygamy, we do have de facto polygamy via serial monogamy. As a result, fertility rates are down, women are reaching menarche 5 years earlier on average today than 100 years ago and there's a scarcity of long-term male mates. However, this competitive strategy wouldn't explain the rise in androgyny and the genral decline in male testosterone over the years (see the Gorilla point). Could it be that other enviromental factors affecting phenotypic expression but the do not create selection pressures for more femminine genes in men are at work(like increased consumption of soy)?

Fraternal Birth Order and Maternal Age as Main Focus

Fraternal Birth Order and Sibling Sex Ratio

• MetaAnalysis
  • https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28608293
  • https://www.scienceopen.com/document_file/7366e60f-b974-464f-aecf-3416b71534e3/PubMedCentral/7366e60f-b974-464f-aecf-3416b71534e3.pdf
  • https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-020-01819-3
  • https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-017-1007-4
• "Older Brother" and male-dominated siblings ratio https://doi.org/10.1017/s0021932098005112
• Homosexual Females has more female-dominated sibling ratio https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0090257
• Older Maternal Age as a Better Predictor of Homosexuality and Gender Dusphoria https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jsxm.2020.02.004
• co-correlates with right-handedness, left-handed are unaffected https://doi.org/10.1080/13576500701710432
• Later Births have lower Conscientiousness, and higher Agreeableness, Openness, Extraversion, Emotional Stability http://www.sulloway.org/Holcomb.pdf
• More Younger Sisters Contributes to Gender Dysphoria risk https://doi.org/10.1098/rsbl.2005.0342
• Having older sisters leads to lesbianism https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0090257
• Lack of correlation with "missing father" or "abusive parents" https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01067431
• Related to digit ratio https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/147470491100900402
• Has to be BIOLOGICAL siblings (time reared with non-biological sisters also has an effect) https://www.pnas.org/content/103/28/10771
• Opposing sibling sex ratio effects between Gender Dysphoria and Pedophilia https://doi.org/10.1080/10532528.1997.10559918
• More older sisters increase the likelihood of being taken to Sex Change https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0090257
• More Older brothers than sisters, and less sisters leads to male gender dysphoria, Less younger brothers and less siblings leads to female "gender dysphoria" https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs10508-011-9777-6.pdf
• Laterborn = Reproductive Preference of 3+ years (compared to under 2 years for firstborners) https://www.toddkshackelford.com/downloads/Michalski-Shackelford-PAID-2002.pdf
• Female Only or Younger Child and Male Laterborns = Longer Virginity https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-021-01979-w
• See Above https://commons.und.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2395&context=theses
• Leaterborns = More "Loyal" https://doi.org/10.1007/s12110-003-1017-x
• Those that born 2-4 years younger has less delinquency and more education, but weaker opposite effects for 5-8 year younger difference https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w23038/w23038.pdf

Birth Order, Sibling Pool and IQ

Does Higher Birth Order have higher IQ and Education Attainment?

• https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289615000045
• https://ftp.iza.org/dp3007.pdf

Alternative Explanation: Smaller Sibling Size https://doi.org/10.1002/per.2285

• Higher Categorical or Linear Birth Order = More Extraversion and Intelligence
• Higher Categorical Birth Order = Less Emotional Stability
• Higher Linear Birth Order = Higher Conscientiousness

Maternal Age, Miscarriage Rate and Contraception Use

• Maternal Miscarriage Rate and Low Birth Weights as a sign of single-child homosexuality https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-016-0829-9
• approx. 5 years older mothers https://doi.org/10.1016/s0140-6736(62)91719-1
• Older mothers but not older fathers for gays, older fathers but not older mothers for lesbians https://doi.org/10.1017/s0021932004006030
• Possible relation with mothers stress https://doi.org/10.1080/00224498809551449
• Possible relations to Maternal Lineage Fertility (in general AND Maternal dominance over Paternal Dominance) https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0051088

Other Theories

• Digit Ratio https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72486-6

Schizophrenia and Birth Order

• More Older Siblings, Maternal Schizophrenia, Older Fathers and Younger Mothers https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-244X-4-41
• More Older Siblings, Higher Intermediate or Unemployment, Rivalry and lack of Warmth https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2020.00321
• Age at first birth being higher than 27 ("the wall") https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-28160-z