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Inceldom FAQ: Difference between revisions
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→Are incels misogynistic?
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==Are incels misogynistic?== | ==Are incels misogynistic?== | ||
To clarify this question it is important to note if one is talking about incels as a life circumstance (as this Wiki defines it) or incels as a particular online subculture. Regarding sexually inactive men who do not explicitly identify as incels, a 2023 study (Selmner et al.) asserted that misogyny is driven by | ===Evidence against=== | ||
To clarify this question, it is important to note if one is talking about incels as a life circumstance (as this Wiki defines it) or incels as a particular online subculture. Regarding sexually inactive men who do not explicitly identify as incels, a 2023 study (Selmner et al.) asserted that misogyny is driven by the “psychology of status-seeking and dominance-orientation, which correlates with having many, not few, sexual partners”. This study found that men who reported high promiscuous intentions were generally the least misogynistic. It was also found that a mismatch between these promiscuous intentions (desire) and actually attaining sexual success did not predict misogynistic attitudes. Interestingly, the metric for “misogynistic attitudes” in this study was derived from a list of [[Elliot Rodger|Elliot Rodger’s]] observations on the nature of women. It also focused on other questions that seem unrelated to misogyny per se, questions that seem to measure a certain pedestalization of women, reflecting Rodger’s belief that men's value is socially determined by their degree of success with women. The most misogynistic men were those who did not seem to really like or enjoy sex with women but reported being highly sexually active regardless, hinting that they see sexual interactions mainly as a way to display dominance in various forms.<ref>https://psyarxiv.com/wsvq8/</ref> | |||
Men with high sexual success but low sexual desire were likely psychopathic, as psychopathy strongly predicted misogynistic attitudes, with a correlation coefficient of ''r'' = 0.712. This finding aligns with prior research showing that [[Dark triad|Dark Triad]] traits are generally linked to misogynistic and pro-rape attitudes,<ref>https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2023-02631-001</ref> likely without adversely affecting these men's mating success.<ref>https://incels.wiki/w/Dark_triad#Evidence_of_Dark_Triad_men_being_more_sexually_successful</ref> The least misogynistic group comprised men who reported both high desire for and levels of promiscuity | Men with high sexual success but low sexual desire were likely psychopathic, as psychopathy strongly predicted misogynistic attitudes, with a correlation coefficient of ''r'' = 0.712. This finding aligns with prior research showing that [[Dark triad|Dark Triad]] traits are generally linked to misogynistic and pro-rape attitudes,<ref>https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2023-02631-001</ref> likely without adversely affecting these men's mating success.<ref>https://incels.wiki/w/Dark_triad#Evidence_of_Dark_Triad_men_being_more_sexually_successful</ref> The least misogynistic group comprised men who reported both high desire for and levels of promiscuity. Additional evidence indicates that women frequently exaggerate men's levels of hostile sexism, especially in long-term relationships.<ref>https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/02654075221118546</ref> Thus, it is unlikely that women can reliably detect such attitudes, as feminists and other women often argue. Most likely, many women are either indifferent to these misogynistic attitudes or, in some cases, actually attracted to them. It is also possible that women prefer men with benevolent sexist attitudes (chivalry), but accept hostile sexist attitudes anyway as they see the two as being inextricably linked.<ref>https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-009-9665-x</ref> | ||
Regardless, these findings collectively suggest that a man's expressed level of misogyny is unlikely to influence his status as involuntarily celibate. These collective findings challenge the notion that incel status reliably promotes misogynistic attitudes. Rather, the evidence suggests that misogyny may be more strongly correlated with, and predicted by, deep-rooted personality traits such as psychopathy and general antagonistic personality traits. | |||
Nevertheless, evidence suggests that participating actively in incel forums does not predict increased adherence to misogynistic attitudes, as users | ===Evidence for=== | ||
However, there is some evidence that when a man has extended periods of low sexual success, and potentially when they perceive this lack of sexual success as being caused by rejection by women, there may be some association with misogynistic attitudes. The blogger “Date Psychology” conducted an attempted refutation of Selmer et al. He created a “Chad Scale”, which measured self-assessed attractiveness and desirability to women. He then rated people based on self-ID'ed versus “operationalized” incel status depending on whether one explicitly identified as an incel or endorsed not having sex within two years despite effort. Reporting high attractiveness is associated with narcissistic traits,<ref>https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1073191119858410</ref> so it is not surprising that there was no relationship with this “Chad Scale” and misogyny, as this was also found in Selmer et al. This does, however, cast further doubt on the claim that sexual success is linearly associated with higher misogynistic (or “hostile sexist”) attitudes, as his “Chad Scale” did also have a behavioral component. This finding suggests that some Dark Triad traits are not reliably predictive of hostile sexist attitudes, with such attitudes being mainly associated with antagonistic personality traits such as psychopathy and low agreeableness, as has been found in prior research. However, Datepsych did find a moderate (''d'' = 0.47) effect for his “operationalized incels” and the measure of hostile sexism used.<ref>https://datepsychology.com/are-chads-more-misogynistic/</ref> Self-identified incels were also higher on the extreme misogyny scale (''d'' = 1.27), which aligns with the finding of Granau et al. (2022).<ref>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886922003658</ref> These results may suggest that extended and lifelong romantic rejection can eventually spark resentment of women in men, which is certainly a plausible hypothesis. However, as men generally have a tendency to be overconfident in their ability to attract women,<ref>https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167215588754</ref> sampling men who admit that they fail at this categorically may select for psychologically atypical men, which may also select for other non-normative attitudes, [[Women-are-wonderful effect|as pronounced hostile sexism is]]. | |||
Interestingly, Granau et al. attempted to prove that romantic rejection did promote hostile sexist attitudes even when antagonistic personality traits were controlled for. A multi-step regression showed that “unwanted celibacy” (which measures perceptions of social exclusion and romantic rejection) did significantly predict “hostility towards women” (hostile sexism) even when controlling for the personality traits of neuroticism and agreeableness, which were fairly large predictors of such attitudes. “Unwanted celibacy”, however, did not promote endorsement of willingness to commit rape, which was measured simply by the question of whether one would rape if one could get away with it. The regression, however, included self-identified incels. As the self-identified incels were larger on hostile sexism to begin with, with a large effect size, it is unclear how much of this claimed effect of “unwanted celibacy” on hostile attitudes toward women was a simple tautological finding driven by the incels being self-identified incels and having the associated attitudes, as nearly half of the sample was comprised of self-identified incels. As such, this analysis does not conclusively demonstrate that romantic rejection reliably causes misogynistic attitudes in the general population. | |||
In terms of self-identified incels, as noted above, many do express misogynistic attitudes, either to vent, because they are resentful at being rejected by women, or just to troll. Denigration of women may also be a way to cement bonds between men in all-male environments, which incel forums generally are.<ref>https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/07916035211034355</ref> Furthermore, a large amount of incel forum content seems to be posted by a few extremely active users,<ref>https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09546553.2019.1638256 p.5</ref> indicating that this type of discourse may be driven by a minority of users, as has been found in other controversial online forums.<ref>https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361917469_Comparing_Online_Posting_Typologies_among_Violent_and_Nonviolent_Right-Wing_Extremists</ref> | |||
Nevertheless, evidence suggests that participating actively in incel forums does not predict increased adherence to misogynistic attitudes, as the frequency of users utilizing misogynistic terms does not increase with greater post count, a finding that counteracts narratives that blame such forums for “radicalizing” users.<ref>https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/14614448231176777</ref> | |||
===Summary=== | |||
The evidence suggests that self-identified incels do tend to have some misogynistic attitudes, though it is not clear how much this is really driven by romantic rejection among those who espouse these beliefs. It is plausible that long-lasting inceldom can alienate men from women, though this state may also be associated with traits that predict the adoption of non-normative attitudes. Overall, misogyny is likely primarily predicted by antagonistic personality traits such as the Dark Triad and an instrumental and zero-sum view of sexual relationships, traits that are not exclusive to incels. Many romantically successful men express misogynistic attitudes, and it is unlikely that possessing misogynistic attitudes causes inceldom in most cases, contrary to mainstream perceptions. While incel forums are often criticized for promoting misogynistic views, data shows that active participation in these spaces does not necessarily radicalize users into adopting more extreme misogynistic attitudes. Users who espouse misogynistic attitudes likely had such attitudes to begin with. It is also unlikely that unwanted celibacy drives men to endorse rape, in general. | |||
==Are incels violent?== | ==Are incels violent?== | ||