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Largely separate from other incel or blackpill communities, some communities like to share and read scientific studies on dating and human sexual behavior on [https://old.reddit.com/r/BlackPillScience /r/BlackPillScience], which later lead to the creation of the [[Scientific Blackpill]] article. These groups proposed a more extended definition of the blackpill, revolving around determinism rather than simple lookism, and weren't prescriptive in regards to the consequences of such lines of evidence.
Largely separate from other incel or blackpill communities, some communities like to share and read scientific studies on dating and human sexual behavior on [https://old.reddit.com/r/BlackPillScience /r/BlackPillScience], which later lead to the creation of the [[Scientific Blackpill]] article. These groups proposed a more extended definition of the blackpill, revolving around determinism rather than simple lookism, and weren't prescriptive in regards to the consequences of such lines of evidence.


==Traditional conservatism==
Reddit's incel boards were mostly apolitical, and the term "blackpill" mostly meant "it's all about looks and hence [[it's over]]".
After the banning of [[Braincels|/r/braincels]], however, blackpillers left on [[incels.co]] were dominated by people who promoted certain traditionalist/social conservative ideas as the solution to male inceldom, specifically [[monogamy]] and general male domination of women. They attempted to incorporate this into the blackpill.
====Tradionalist's arguments====
Traditionalist blackpillers push for a return to [[traditionalism|traditions]], [[sexual sublimation]], [[monogamy]] and the [[Scientific Blackpill (Supplemental)#Women_were_historically_predominantly_involved_in_cooking_and_they_never_dominated_men|'natural subordination']] of women. This is seen in accordance with the [[greatest happiness principle]] as even women themselves are thought to be currently unhappy,<ref>https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill_(Supplemental)#Self-rated_female_happiness_has_been_declining_since_the_1970s_in_the_US</ref> and desire being subordinated and manned around.<ref>https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#62.25_of_women_have_fantasies_about_rape_and_other_forced_sex_acts</ref>
The social conservatism and focus on [[sexual sublimation]] reminds of the philosophy of 20th century English ethnologist [[J. D. Unwin]]. Most traditionalist blackpillers are atheist, leading one to suspect the validity of their attachment to 'tradition,  but some promote 'cultural Christianity' or other religions.
Non-traditionalist blackpillers tend to be anti-[[tradcon]].
==Blackpill Feminism==
Was a community of radical feminist women who accepted the idea of biological determism as determining sex differences, but instead of using this to promote patriarchy or monogamy, they opposed dating men and viewed them as biologically inferior and hence untrainable. Issues spoken about by feminists, such as male sexual violence and patriarchy, were argued to be biologically determined. Thus they were 'blackpilled' in regards to fixing these issues, apart from recourse to extreme methods that generally involved deploying violence against men and reduction of their numbers in relation to women. Their subreddit [https://web.archive.org/web/20200417214641/http://www.reddit.com/r/blackpillfeminism/ r/Blackpillfeminism] was short-lived.


==Criticism of such communities==
==Themes and common arguments==
===Claims the Blackpill is cultish===
Blackpill memes on Reddit were largely shared for shitposting and venting,<ref>http://redditsearch.io/?term=braincels%20vent%20&dataviz=false&aggs=false&subreddits=&searchtype=comments&search=true&start=0&end=1582986983&size=1000</ref><ref>https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelExit/comments/dqddyw/what_does_exit_mean_in_this_sub/f62negc/</ref> This is similar to the nihilistic shitposting culture that is common on other internet forums, such as 4chan, which influenced the blackpill greatly. Cultish elements may have developed due to some members taking the shitposting very seriously.
Still, explicit incel forums like [[incels.co]] and the like have been portrayed as being more extreme and cultish compared to Reddit, e.g. with members explicitly luring in newcomers under the slogan to "learn about the blackpill" and "[[LDAR|lay down and rot]]".<ref>https://incels.wiki/w/File:Bbb.png</ref>
 
===Blackpill proselytism and activism===
Some of the most dedicated members in blackpilled forums actively seek to "spread the blackpill", which often involves using studies, online dating experiments and other forms of evidence to "swallow" the blackpill narrative, generally surrounding looks being important for man's dating success/or men's dating success being largely immutable in general. Some have likened this to cultish behavior.
 
These 'blackpill evangelists' engage in this behavior for several reasons. Some argue they do this to lessen feelings of shame or guilt among incels and relieve them from false hope,<ref>https://incels.is/threads/what-are-you-doing-to-spread-the-blackpill.53911/#post-995860,</ref> some want to change discourse in society,<ref>https://incels.is/threads/infiltrating-universities-to-spread-the-blackpill.67531/</ref> while others are vocal about trying to full-on "spark a revolution". Seemingly, the main thing that distinguishes the most cultish members from typical cults is their lack of congruent or zealous community philosophical leaders, which makes the 'ideology' rather reflexive and inchoate in general. It would be safer to argue that that belief is not completely coherent, as has been claimed, but rather a intellectual heuristic that is applied in reaction to what blackpillers perceive as the intolerable condition of the modern mating market. Thus, the more extreme forms of the 'blackpill' are closely linked to the rise of so-called 'salad bar extremism', wherein alienated and disaffected people tend to unify their grievances in response to the growth of the internet and social media.<ref>https://eeradicalization.com/the-extremism-market-and-salad-bar-ideology/</ref> This could be why it is commonly perceived that blackpillers are 'alt-right', despite there being no clear or actual link between the two schools of thought.
 
On [[incels.co]] there are no such leaders who promote the blackpill in such an organized way. The argument that blackpilled incels are an organized group that advocates extremist solutions to social issues has caught hold in academia, where it is commonly argued that 'incels' constitute some sort of extremist movement.<ref>https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/cseun/</ref>
 
===Claimed far-right links===
The person who first formalized the blackpill, [[Paragon]], believed in [[biological essentialism]]. The first modern redpill/blackpill influenced incel boards anywhere were either founded or discussion-seeded by a self-described "neo-reactionary", who allowed the promotion of violence on his forums, i.e. [[Caamib]]. He, however, rejected certain core ideas of the blackpill, namely lookism. His focus was on feminism as the sole cause of involuntarily celibacy. Reddit made it clear they would not tolerate that style of incel discussion, and so Braincels was populated next. Braincels was a previously dormant sub founded by an anarcho-communist named [[AnathematicAnarchist]]. The forum espoused a unique version of the blackpill and was not particularly traditionalist or [[alt-right]]. [[Braincels]] actively sought to minimize racism in their Reddit community before [[AnathematicAnarchist]] committed suicide, and they were largely hostile to the racialist aspects of the alt-right.<ref>http://redditsearch.io/?term=racism%20&dataviz=false&aggs=false&subreddits=braincels&searchtype=posts&search=true&start=0&end=1583051366&size=100</ref><ref>http://redditsearch.io/?term=alt-right&dataviz=false&aggs=false&subreddits=braincels&searchtype=posts&search=true&start=0&end=1583051401&size=100</ref>
 
==Themes==
Typical themes, [[memes]] and shitposts in blackpill communities overlap with the [[redpill]], and include the following. Not all blackpillers agree with all of these positions referenced here, they are collected for reasons of completeness:
Typical themes, [[memes]] and shitposts in blackpill communities overlap with the [[redpill]], and include the following. Not all blackpillers agree with all of these positions referenced here, they are collected for reasons of completeness:


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Blackpills often means that "[[it's over]]" for incels with poor looks and low [[social status]] or other flaws—that is, that they have next to no chance of '[[ascension|ascending]]' or attaining sexual and social fulfilment. The blackpill gave rise to various spin-offs with varying degrees of seriousness, for instance, the '[[dogpill]]' or '[[birdpill]]'.
Blackpills often means that "[[it's over]]" for incels with poor looks and low [[social status]] or other flaws—that is, that they have next to no chance of '[[ascension|ascending]]' or attaining sexual and social fulfilment. The blackpill gave rise to various spin-offs with varying degrees of seriousness, for instance, the '[[dogpill]]' or '[[birdpill]]'.
==Traditional conservatism==
Reddit's incel boards were mostly apolitical, and the term "blackpill" mostly meant "it's all about looks and hence [[it's over]]".
After the banning of [[Braincels|/r/braincels]], however, blackpillers left on [[incels.co]] were dominated by people who promoted certain traditionalist/social conservative ideas as the solution to male inceldom, specifically [[monogamy]] and general male domination of women. They attempted to incorporate this into the blackpill.
====Traditionalist's arguments====
Traditionalist blackpillers push for a return to [[traditionalism|traditions]], [[sexual sublimation]], [[monogamy]] and the [[Scientific Blackpill (Supplemental)#Women_were_historically_predominantly_involved_in_cooking_and_they_never_dominated_men|'natural subordination']] of women. This is seen in accordance with the [[greatest happiness principle]] as even women themselves are thought to be currently unhappy,<ref>https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill_(Supplemental)#Self-rated_female_happiness_has_been_declining_since_the_1970s_in_the_US</ref> and desire being subordinated and manned around.<ref>https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#62.25_of_women_have_fantasies_about_rape_and_other_forced_sex_acts</ref>
The social conservatism and focus on [[sexual sublimation]] reminds of the philosophy of 20th century English ethnologist [[J. D. Unwin]]. Most traditionalist blackpillers are atheist, leading one to suspect the validity of their attachment to 'tradition,  but some promote 'cultural Christianity' or other religions.
Non-traditionalist blackpillers tend to be anti-[[tradcon]].
==Blackpill Feminism==
Was a community of radical feminist women who accepted the idea of biological determism as determining sex differences, but instead of using this to promote patriarchy or monogamy, they opposed dating men and viewed them as biologically inferior and hence untrainable. Issues spoken about by feminists, such as male sexual violence and patriarchy, were argued to be biologically determined. Thus they were 'blackpilled' in regards to fixing these issues, apart from recourse to extreme methods that generally involved deploying violence against men and reduction of their numbers in relation to women. Their subreddit [https://web.archive.org/web/20200417214641/http://www.reddit.com/r/blackpillfeminism/ r/Blackpillfeminism] was short-lived.
==Criticism of such communities==
===Claims the Blackpill is cultish===
Blackpill memes on Reddit were largely shared for shitposting and venting,<ref>http://redditsearch.io/?term=braincels%20vent%20&dataviz=false&aggs=false&subreddits=&searchtype=comments&search=true&start=0&end=1582986983&size=1000</ref><ref>https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelExit/comments/dqddyw/what_does_exit_mean_in_this_sub/f62negc/</ref> This is similar to the nihilistic shitposting culture that is common on other internet forums, such as 4chan, which influenced the blackpill greatly. Cultish elements may have developed due to some members taking the shitposting very seriously.
Still, explicit incel forums like [[incels.co]] and the like have been portrayed as being more extreme and cultish compared to Reddit, e.g. with members explicitly luring in newcomers under the slogan to "learn about the blackpill" and "[[LDAR|lay down and rot]]".<ref>https://incels.wiki/w/File:Bbb.png</ref>
===Blackpill proselytism and activism===
Some of the most dedicated members in blackpilled forums actively seek to "spread the blackpill", which often involves using studies, online dating experiments and other forms of evidence to "swallow" the blackpill narrative, generally surrounding looks being important for man's dating success/or men's dating success being largely immutable in general. Some have likened this to cultish behavior.
These 'blackpill evangelists' engage in this behavior for several reasons. Some argue they do this to lessen feelings of shame or guilt among incels and relieve them from false hope,<ref>https://incels.is/threads/what-are-you-doing-to-spread-the-blackpill.53911/#post-995860,</ref> some want to change discourse in society,<ref>https://incels.is/threads/infiltrating-universities-to-spread-the-blackpill.67531/</ref> while others are vocal about trying to full-on "spark a revolution". Seemingly, the main thing that distinguishes the most cultish members from typical cults is their lack of congruent or zealous community philosophical leaders, which makes the 'ideology' rather reflexive and inchoate in general. It would be safer to argue that that belief is not completely coherent, as has been claimed, but rather a intellectual heuristic that is applied in reaction to what blackpillers perceive as the intolerable condition of the modern mating market. Thus, the more extreme forms of the 'blackpill' are closely linked to the rise of so-called 'salad bar extremism', wherein alienated and disaffected people tend to unify their grievances in response to the growth of the internet and social media.<ref>https://eeradicalization.com/the-extremism-market-and-salad-bar-ideology/</ref> This could be why it is commonly perceived that blackpillers are 'alt-right', despite there being no clear or actual link between the two schools of thought.
On [[incels.co]] there are no such leaders who promote the blackpill in such an organized way. The argument that blackpilled incels are an organized group that advocates extremist solutions to social issues has caught hold in academia, where it is commonly argued that 'incels' constitute some sort of extremist movement.<ref>https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/cseun/</ref>
===Claimed far-right links===
The person who first formalized the blackpill, [[Paragon]], believed in [[biological essentialism]]. The first modern redpill/blackpill influenced incel boards anywhere were either founded or discussion-seeded by a self-described "neo-reactionary", who allowed the promotion of violence on his forums, i.e. [[Caamib]]. He, however, rejected certain core ideas of the blackpill, namely lookism. His focus was on feminism as the sole cause of involuntarily celibacy. Reddit made it clear they would not tolerate that style of incel discussion, and so Braincels was populated next. Braincels was a previously dormant sub founded by an anarcho-communist named [[AnathematicAnarchist]]. The forum espoused a unique version of the blackpill and was not particularly traditionalist or [[alt-right]]. [[Braincels]] actively sought to minimize racism in their Reddit community before [[AnathematicAnarchist]] committed suicide, and they were largely hostile to the racialist aspects of the alt-right.<ref>http://redditsearch.io/?term=racism%20&dataviz=false&aggs=false&subreddits=braincels&searchtype=posts&search=true&start=0&end=1583051366&size=100</ref><ref>http://redditsearch.io/?term=alt-right&dataviz=false&aggs=false&subreddits=braincels&searchtype=posts&search=true&start=0&end=1583051401&size=100</ref>


==Blackpill vs redpill==
==Blackpill vs redpill==
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