User:Samaritan/Fallacies against Inceldom

From Incel Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

This page is under construction

"It's not possible to be Incel / There's someone for everyone"[edit | edit source]

While it's possible that some men are celibate over purely psychological conditions, it is strongly believed that many men are involuntary celibate over conditions beyond their control, such as physical unattractiveness, autism, or disabilities.

While factual evidence and studies showed that women can get dates and long term relationships despite living in critical conditions that poses hardships for them (such as disabilities, birth genetic defects, third degree burns, or acid victims), the same isn't true for men, as proportionally men facing the same critical conditions have higher chances of remaining single and celibate.

The following video shows a man who failed to get a date, despite paying a date arrangement company for it, possibly being socially ostracized over his genetic condition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dALbAg4TX6o

"Just flirt or approach random women a lot"[edit | edit source]

In the current times where feminism and cancel culture are rampant, it isn't a good idea to make pickup artistry styled approaches, as there have been multiple reports of men facing jail over randomly approaching women. [1] [2] [3]


"Just socialize and get lots of friends first!"[edit | edit source]

While socialization and bonding used to be the most common way of establishing relationships, this isn't the case anymore, as between 1995 to 2017, meeting people through friends saw the largest decline, with 40% fewer people meeting this way, and meeting people online is now the primary way were relationships are formed [4]. Since in most online social network environments people get to know each other through imagery, such as profile pictures, rather than skillset, knowledge or personality, relationships are considerably more superficial. Most incels are known for being unattractive, and it is a known fact that a man's looks are significantly correlated with his popularity and peer status[5]; Significant factors correlated with social status are extroversion and physical attractiveness, with no significant correlation found between agreeableness and status, and it is speculated that physical attractiveness may have been more linked to popularity and status among men because of gender norms rewarding men for sexual success. There is also credence to the idea that humans in part decide social status by looks. It is also known that people accurately perceive a man's mental health from facial appearance alone [6], so unattractive men can be perceived as needy and/or neurotic which can be an obstacle in building friendships and bonds, and it is a documented fact that autistic men are judged as awkward, less physically attractive and less approachable within seconds [7], which can be impactful as physically attractive people convey personality traits better during first impressions [8]. Attractiveness is a major social magnet, as good looking people are perceived to have a higher intellect and a better personality [9]

Particularly, a considerable amount of members of the millennial generation are often or always lonely and friendless, not just sexually and romantically, but in all respects; This reflects that loneliness and social isolation is on the rise for younger generations [10], which might be related to the change of paradigms of how human relations are established, and how superficiality has been on the rise.



"Just hit the gym"[edit | edit source]

There are studies suggesting that facial attractiveness contributes more to overall attractiveness than body, particularly in men [11]; It is regarded that facial structure better provides cues of genetic fitness, sexual dimorphism, and health, because while a body may be changed easily with diet and exercise modification, a face cannot so easily be changed. This provides the paradox of "self improvement" whereby the things that matter most are the things one can "self improve" the least. [12]


"Just get rich or famous"[edit | edit source]

Both women and men are known for virtue signalling and lying about the importance of looks over financial prospects and personality [13]. While it may be true that possessing money and status improves the person's mating prospects, it diverges from true sexual attractiveness, and provides fewer incentives to bond into long term relationships than when possessing proper appeal to sexual selection. It is a similar situation where a man seeks paid sex and paid relationships.

"I know a guy who is very ugly and short but has a pretty girlfriend/slays"[edit | edit source]

This is a common anecdotal fallacy; Isolated examples relying of personal testimony in an attempt to refute a claim. It's a mix of cherrypicking and survivorship bias ('I know an ugly guy who made it, let's forget about the majority of other ugly guys who didn't', etc). Overwhelming scientific evidence about sexual selection based on looks and empirical experiences from an incel interlocutor should be more than enough to debunk this kind of argument; An exception is hardly a rule. Also, perception of physical unattractiveness can sometimes be subjective, so while for some a particular man who is in a relationship/who has an easy time getting hookups is physically unattractive, this perception might not be shared by the women that were attracted to him.

"Sex and opposite-sex relationships aren't that important"[edit | edit source]

Sexlessness, singledom and loneliness likely have a number of adverse effects, and some studies point that sex is regarded as the most pleasurable activity of all. Lonely people are 50% more likely to die prematurely than those with healthy social relationships. Being in a relationship may increase men's social status, sexual activity was related to greater well-being the next day and warm partner contact lowers cardiovascular stress [14]


"Looks aren't everything"[edit | edit source]

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#People_broadly_agree_on_who_is_good_looking_or_not.2C_and_it_affects_every_aspect_of_life

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Beauty_is_objective_and_measurable_in_the_brain

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#It_takes_less_than_one_second_for_people_to_accurately_judge_beauty

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill_(Summary)#Looks_are_not_everything

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Attractive_people_are_perceived_much_more_positively_than_they_really_are

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Attractive_men_are_perceived_as_.27funnier.27.2C_even_when_they_are_actually_not

"Men care more about looks than women"[edit | edit source]

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill_(Summary)#Why_women_are_seen_as_less_shallow

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#70.25_of_women_would_openly_avoid_a_man_solely_because_of_his_looks

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Women_sexualize_themselves_online_to_attract_high_status_mates

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Being_unattractive_reduces_men.27s_chances_of_finding_partners.2C_but_not_women.27s

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#In_short-term_dating_and_when_women_have_many_dating_options_they_are_more_choosy_about_looks_than_men


"Just use a dating app"[edit | edit source]

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Your_looks_define_perception_of_your_personality_in_online_dating

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#The_top_10.25_of_men_get_58.25_of_women.27s_likes_in_online_dating

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#The_.231_most_important_thing_to_women_in_a_man.27s_online_dating_bio_is_if_he_says_he_is_6.27_tall

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Most_online_dating_sites_are_dominated_by_men.2C_only_21.25-34.25_of_users_are_female

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Women_are_more_racist_in_online_dating.2C_and_92-95.25_with_a_.22preference.22_exclude_any_ethnic_men

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Women_reply_most_online_to_white_men_and_least_to_Indian_men

"Just solicit services from prostitutes"[edit | edit source]

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Younger_female_prostitutes_are_in_higher_demand_and_charge_more.2C_across_numerous_cultures

"The Blackpill philosophy is bad, just take the Redpill and do the following bro: *cope advices that has nothing to do with improving looks*"[edit | edit source]

Common beliefs among the Redpilled manosphere are the Spinning plates theory, holding frame, and hypermasculinity.

As seen in the Scientific Blackpill, for spinning plates, the effects of mate-choice copying are consistent, but small, maybe due to academic bias and/or wrong/unrealistic conditions. Female mate-choice copying agrees with humans being moderately polygamous. About holding frame, most women do seem to be drawn to leadership, confidence as well as manipulativeness and other dark triad traits (to the extent they get to choose), but displaying these traits toward the female likely requires no attainable skill (links between IQ and short-term dating interest are 0) and may be a waste of time. It's rather about male competition and social context, as well as persistence (nearly everyone needs to wait for their hardwired coyness program to switch from no to yes) and risk-proneness (don't be scared of metoo, babies, STDs and embarrassment). Women want tingles, drama, holding frame is being stoic, they don't like 'strong silent types' anymore. Such men are 'boring' unless they bring other things to the table in terms of SMV. It's likely only true in that women have contempt for men that are whiny and share their feelings with women and expect sympathy, not really in terms of being low in neuroticism. Many young women would be quite attracted to some beta males who are constantly engaging in histrionics and shows of weakness, as long as he meets their other requirements. Redpillers are also adept of hypermasculinity, where attractiveness of masculinity is curvilinear with the peak being possibly slightly above average masculinity. Humans are very self-domesticated and neotenous, so some amount of neoteny is also attractive/present/normal in men, but it does not seem to matter anyhow, as most is down to competition, persistence and coercion or parental mate choice (depending on mating context). [citation needed] This study seems to oppose the redpill theory that the majority of women are very attracted to conventionally masculine behavior:


  • In general, correlations show that higher masculinity in heterosexual women and higher femininity in both heterosexual and homosexual men are related to higher sociosexuality. Higher sociosexuality in masculine women can be explained by prenatal or actual androgen effects on sexual libido and can reflect a fast life history strategy.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886919305070

Much of the redpill type advice probably does work for confident, fast LH men who feel comfortable in the more ancient free mate-choice context, and this is likely strongly genetically determined and it's arguably a minority of guys given that free-mate choice was only normal in ~30% of societies, and those were presumable also more r-selected than european and ne-asian societies.

Female behavior is actually linked to promiscuity (sociosexuality, measures promiscuity related intentions, attitudes and behaviors) in men. This partially measures actual sexual behavior, so we can assume they are more sexually successful on average. Probably the main masculine trait that matters in terms of sexual success is being sexually aggressive and pursuing the woman, due to most women having a completely passive courtship style (at least when they are interacting with most men).Some Dark Triad traits that are correlated with masculinity are also correlated with sexual success, but it's not clear whether women's attraction to masculine behavior is the casual factor here. It likely isn't. As for physically masculine traits, the only one that is consistently linked to higher levels of sexual success is bodily masculinity (muscularity). [15]

Besides looks, there is a weaker evidence for vocal depth being linked to both sexual and reproductive success. This is pretty much immutable post puberty for most men. Height as well, but redpillers don't emphasize this much.


"You are probably not confident enough, or you have a weak/bad personality"[edit | edit source]

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#On_average.2C_women_are_attracted_to_the_Dark_Triad.E2.80.94narcissism.2C_manipulativeness.2C_.26_psychopathy

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Women_are_more_attracted_to_psychopathic_men


There are researches that shows that social awkwardness in itself isn't directly linked to sexual success, actually the more socially maladjusted in some regards have more partners. Women hate autists mainly because they are robotic, boring, nerdy, and rule abiding (you need to break rules to be exciting and romantic). They likely even hate sub clinically autistic men, it's a pure k selected beta provider arranged marriage adaption (sub clinical autistic traits, full blown autism is obviously maladaptive). Also because of their demeanor, lack of normal facial expressiveness etc. This isn't just limited to the opposite sex though, everyone instinctively hates autists. They are also typically low status and very shy. Plus it's also likely linked to being less PA on average, due to higher mutational load, but this effect is expected to be fairly weak in most cases. The study in the Scientific Blackpill had autists lower PA rating as being fairly weak, we don't know if this is mediated by their lack of correct grooming, awkward body postures, demeanor, lack of facial expressivity, or any innate differences in facial morphology like asymmetries though. Likely a mix of all of the above.

"You are just being picky! Stop chasing model-looking women"[edit | edit source]

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Men_are_attracted_to_.22nice.22_women.2C_but_women_are_not_attracted_to_.22nice.22_men

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#70.25_of_women_would_openly_avoid_a_man_solely_because_of_his_looks

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#.27Very_unattractive.27_women_are_more_likely_to_be_married_than_other_women

"Just aim for very ugly women"[edit | edit source]

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#.27Very_unattractive.27_women_are_more_likely_to_be_married_than_other_women

"Incels are a group of people that hate women / Incels are terrorists or shooter worshippers"[edit | edit source]

"Have you considered suicide?"[edit | edit source]

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Incel_forums_are_disproportionately_populated_by_suicidal.2C_disabled.2C_autistic.2C_and_ethnic_men

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Men_are_more_likely_than_women_to_commit_suicide

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Autistic_men_have_10_times_as_many_suicidal_thoughts_as_normal_men

"NAWALT / Not All Women Are Like That"[edit | edit source]

There is some evidence that women are more comformist and less variable in pretty much every way than men. It is assumed this also holds for general mate preferences. Women largely agree on ratings of men's looks: https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#People_broadly_agree_on_who_is_good_looking_or_not.2C_and_it_affects_every_aspect_of_life There is also evidence that SMV is real, and a measurable concept and there is a general factor of smv like there is with intelligence. It's dubious that exists evidence that shows individual women don't care about looks completely, these cases are outliers so it's hard to examine them in a systematic, scientifically rigorous fashion. And of course we don't know if they are actually 'unicorns' or there are actually very pragmatic reasons they are with these men.

"You just need to find the right girl"[edit | edit source]

"You're probably not trying hard enough"[edit | edit source]

"Just take a shower, haircut and lift bro!"[edit | edit source]

https://incels.co/threads/lonely-people-shower-more-while-80-of-women-dont-shower-daily-and-1-in-8-dont-brush-their-teeth-before-bed.265607/

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Bald_men_and_men_with_thinning_hair_are_perceived_as_less_attractive

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Facial_attractiveness_contributes_more_to_overall_attractiveness_than_body.2C_particularly_in_men

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Facial_attractiveness_is_more_important_than_body_because_a_face_can.27t_easily_be_changed

"You don't understand women"[edit | edit source]

"Natural selection is the reason you are not getting laid. Most men that have ever existed didn't leave descendants, that's just how life is"[edit | edit source]

"You just need game"[edit | edit source]

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Winners_in_a_rigged_game_will_consider_the_game_fair_as_long_as_they_keep_winning

Game only works in the sense that you need to follow conventional courtship rituals to get laid in most cases, except if you're really attractive/high status/get lucky, and you need to lead the woman, escalate to sex etc. So it prevents you missing opportunities. As for the behavioral traits women are attracted to, they are all very hard to change, easily as hard to change (I would argue much harder for most people) as one's looks, so the redpill argument that 'learning game' is all you need to be a slayer is silly. Some of their insights into female nature are very good and stuff like 'spinning plates' and 'dread game' has some merit to it if all you care about is maximizing copulations and you aren't incel in the first place. Women appear adapted to lose their sex drive when they think they have a man locked down, unless they perceive the man as being 'better' than then in some way. Then they will put in effort to maintain the relationship by giving the man what he wants, typically sex. A german psychologist called Klausmann did a research on this, women's sex drive steadily declined in long term relationships except when the man was more educated than her. So we would expect similar effects if the man was more attractive, higher status, wealthier, had clear options in terms of other women etc.

"Who hurt you?"[edit | edit source]

"Are you gay?"[edit | edit source]

"Weirdo!"[edit | edit source]

"You misogynist creep!"[edit | edit source]

"Man up, you pussy!"[edit | edit source]

"You're just bitter because you can't get laid"[edit | edit source]

"Fucking incel/loser !!!"[edit | edit source]

"You have issues"[edit | edit source]

"Stop whining"[edit | edit source]

"You need therapy"[edit | edit source]

"You must have a small dick"[edit | edit source]

  1. https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/man-30-arrested-over-youtube-4344422
  2. http://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/almost-went-to-jail-banned-from-campus-for-doing-daygame-vt145519.html
  3. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-46839531
  4. https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Meeting_online_is_now_the_primary_way_relationships_are_formed
  5. https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#A_man.27s_looks_are_significantly_correlated_with_his_popularity_and_peer_status
  6. https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#People_accurately_perceive_a_man.27s_mental_health_from_facial_appearance_alone
  7. https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Autists_are_judged_as_awkward.2C_less_physically_attractive_and_less_approachable_within_seconds
  8. https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Physically_attractive_people_convey_personality_traits_better_during_first_impressions
  9. https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill_(Supplemental)#Good_looking_people_are_perceived_to_have_a_higher_intellect_and_a_better_personality
  10. https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#30.25_of_millennials_are_often_or_always_lonely_and_22.25_have_no_friends
  11. https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Facial_attractiveness_contributes_more_to_overall_attractiveness_than_body.2C_particularly_in_men
  12. https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Facial_attractiveness_is_more_important_than_body_because_a_face_can.27t_easily_be_changed
  13. https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#It_is_Looks_.3E_Personality_.3E_Money_for_both_genders.2C_but_women_lie_more_about_it
  14. https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill_(Summary)#Inceldom_is_harmful
  15. https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Across_91_studies.2C_bodily_masculinity_was_predictive_of_men.27s_mating_and_reproductive_success