Tradcon

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Tradcon is an abbreviation for 'traditional conservative', describing people who (in the interpersonal realm) want a return to chivalry (man proves himself to and protects the woman), traditional gender roles, religion, and the nuclear family (monogamy).

Due to 'tradcon' being a slur, virtually no one self-identifies as such, however tradcons are easy to identify by this definition. Blackpillers largely overlap with tradcon values and practices,[1][2][3][4][5] however, some tradcon blackpillers insist that tradconism does not make men ultimately subservient to women.

Even though the admin of this wiki hates tradconism, he thinks adherents are adorable because all they want is a Disney romance, a traditional relationship, and a devoted wife to come home to.

Blackpillers and other internet trandconism[edit | edit source]

Alleged hypocrisy[edit | edit source]

Some outside observers have noticed a discrepancy between movements in the manosphere towards traditional values, and the values of the space they populate, for example Angela Nagle:[6]

Can “traditional ideas about gender” really be bursting forth from an Internet culture that also features gender-bending pornography, discussions about bisexual curiosity, and a male My Little Pony fandom? What’s more, can a retreat from the traditional authority of the nuclear family into an extended adolescence of videogames, porn, and pranks really be described as patriarchal?

A simple explanation is, of course, that there are no other forums for rightists except free-speech absolutist ones which attract highly diverse forum users.

Traditional monogamy and gender roles as "benefiting incels"[edit | edit source]

There is, however, some truth in the observation that internet tradcons and blackpillers typically do not show any real inclination towards traditions besides enforced monogamy and the subordination of women. Some claim monogamy can only be restored through religious vehicles, but others claim norms and laws will spread in a natural progression, once political correctness is defeated.

The general narrative from tradcon blackpillers is that the sexual revolution worsened inceldom, there was virtually no inceldom in patriarchal monogamous countries,[7] and that by returning to patriarchy,[8] and socially encouraged/enforced monogamy, men and women will naturally want to come together and establish stable sexual relationships.

While there is evidence that sexual liberation has indeed drastically increased divorce rates overall (though they have declined a little in recent years, per capita),[9] marriage data from the 19th century US does seem to demonstrate that there have always been a large amount of unmarried younger men, aged 25-34, in that country at least, many/most of whom were presumably incel.[10]

Tradcons would, however, argue that stable, generally lifelong, unions are preferable to more chaotic serial monogamy (which benefits only a relative few desirable men, at the expense of others). There is indeed some evidence that traditional religious strictures do benefit men who are able to obtain a marriage, in terms of lower risk of facing non-paternity[11] and infidelity, at the hands of their wives.[12] One could question what relevance this has to incels who are unable to secure relationships at all though, let alone marriage.

The narrative that traditional gender roles lead to less inceldom has strongly been criticized. While the sexual revolution may have exacerbated inceldom, it does not logically follow that we can simply dial back the clock to previous gender roles. They argue that technology, rather than cultural changes in themselves, led to the sexual revolution. Technological innovation is impossible to roll back on a civilizational scale(short of societal collapse or severe decline).

Some also argue the blackpill has an incorrect thesis that more rigid gender roles would be something anyone would even want to follow along with at all, especially in modernized societies where they are less necessary for ensuring immediate survival. In fact, according to research on global rates of sexual satisfaction, there seems to be no significant correlation between how rigid gender roles are and how sexually dissatisfied a modern country is.[13]

Tradcon women[edit | edit source]

Tradcon women, often accused of being tradthots, are notable for feeling sympathetic toward incels. Many incels, however, see this as dishonest attempt at attention whoring. Some incels also claim that genuine tradcon women are even more hypergamous than feminists as they claim the tradcon women are exclusively looking for betabuxxers.There is some evidence for this assertion.[14] In fact, the wageslave role of men is so important to tradcon women, many men who like traditional work still feel constrained by this desire of tradcon women. Tradcon women were often bullied in their younger years, leading to them seeking out betabuxxers much earlier in their adult life. They see incels as overlooked betabuxxers, or, in other words, people who would be great at wageslaving for them while they sit on their ass, drink tea, and rant about feminism.

MRA criticism of tradcons[edit | edit source]

Proponents of traditional conservatism see their values' past success as indicators of future success, but critics of traditional conservatism see tradcon values as gynocentric, misandrist, and/or archaic. For example, some tradcons believe it is a men's duty to die in a war while not being entitled to a companion if he returns unscathed.

Alleged tradcon similarity to feminism[edit | edit source]

Traditionalists deal with criticism by shaming men, which bears striking resemblance to feminists. Just like feminists, they aim their insults almost exclusively at weak men and/or incels. Feminists will insult a man for being incel (aka not being able to sexually interest a woman enough for her to be around him) and "creepy" (i.e. ugly or unassertive). Tradcons will insult men who do not assert dominance (as "betas"), marcels, i.e. married men who fail to sexually satisfy their female partners, resulting in infidelity (as "cucks"[15]) alluding a cuckoldry where the man is so weak that he admits her wife the freedom to see other men. Traditional men tend to despise men who admit this freedom fearing once such behavior becomes normal, it would make it harder to mateguard their woman. Tradcons may also use the "cuck" and "beta" to insult white knights and other types of male feminist who display overly submissive and desperate behavior towards women.

A small but growing number of MGTOWs and MRAs have been complaining that their spaces have been overrun by trad-cons like Janet Bloomfield[16] or "enabling" tradcons, like Karen Straughan does (allegedly)[17][18], and that trad-cons are worse than feminists (which they also dislike) because they think trad-cons generally believe that men should exchange work for sex, and other 'anti-male' gender roles that put men in a slave-like position.

Notable Accusations of tradcons being white knights[edit | edit source]

Andrew DiKaiomata from Paul Elam's A Voice for Men wrote a lengthy post about how he thought tradcons were white knights, saying

"This last one is probably the biggest point to show how feminism overlaps with traditional conservatism. It screams both at the same time. “Save the women!,” “Fight for women!."

—Andrew DiKaiomata[19]

Paul Elam on tradcons[edit | edit source]

Prominent Republican-leaning MRA Paul Elam has also stated his opposition to trad-conism, which many view as disingenuous. Despite hiring some anti-tradcons for his very earliest blog, he has recently hired some radical trad-cons for his site, and increased his tradcon rhetoric. His hiring of trad-cons like Janet Bloomfield drawing him criticism from aformentioned MGTOWs and MRAs. Paul has stated opposition to any men's movement which tries to reduce sex differences (anywhere?).

Most controversially Paul has stated support for 'unhealthy hierarchies that lead to suicide burnout and negative male health-outcomes', because he alleges they are necessary for society, common tradcon talking points. This drew Paul further criticism as 'anti-male'. Such as here:

AVFM on tradcons[edit | edit source]

On polyamory/cucks/etc[edit | edit source]

In the conservative world, there are numerous harmful stereotypes floating about when it comes to sex. For starters, all men are not seen to be potential rapists but potential adulterers.

—Hestia, via A Voice for Men[20]

On stay at home wives[edit | edit source]

In the conservative world, the burden of work takes an even more troubling turn as woman are taught they have a right to stay home with their children and if their husband cannot afford to provide the standard of living that makes this necessary, then he is out of God's will, a sinner, or backslidden. When the talk turns to Titus 2 or other other verses used to support this women's right, there is not an admonishment to wives to be frugal, to be industrious and start a home business, a garden for cooking and canning, or so forth, just a strict requirement for men without a rule of cooperation on the part of women. Staying at home is simply her right, with no responsibility to aid the burden of breadwinning.

—Hestia, via A Voice for Men[21]

Other criticism of tradcons[edit | edit source]

Tradconism is cope[edit | edit source]

The claim that a return to traditional values can solve the problem of inceldom for most men is by some seen as a coping mechanism because there has always been a large underclass of males who have not reproduced.[22] There are similar trends in modern times, though the majority of men in Western societies become some sort of father, biological or step.[23]

Though it is argued that many of these men may at risk for cuckoldry, with rates varying drastically by social class, race and research methodology.[24] These facts prove that even the wealthiest man is still at (low) risk for being cucked. DNA studies have given a clearer view of the dating market, now and in the past.[25]

Some would argue that hyperfocusing on a low risk of explicit cuckoldry is indicative of paranoia or excessive risk aversion, but high divorce rates and high female infidelity rates (15-50% depending on sample)[26] also present a challenge to those advocating for committed, monogamous relationships. Indeed, allegations of naivete (in the terms of having a romantic view of how sexually loyal and chaste people were in the past) are a common critique of those who advocate traditional gender roles and monogamy. Their opponents argue that no one is (or has ever been) safe, there is no 100% guarantee of relationship security.

Tradcons would argue this frequent lack of fidelity in relationships is the result of modern degeneracy, rather than being indicative of a natural human aversion towards monogamy, or instead that strictly enforced tradcon norms are required to suppress a natural human tendency (especially an alleged innate female tendency, in the case of blackpilled tradcons) towards sexual profligacy.

It is also argued by opponents of tradcons that returning to the past is pointless because the past did not actually have a better dating market for most men than times now. Being a male whom does not reproduce is perfectly normal.[27] This is partially due to men of the pre-modern era being violently killed or perishing to disease before they could even reach the age when they would be expected to marry however. Though it is indeed likely that women's mate choice, the preferences of women's parents for resourceful men, and dominant, high status men hoarding wealth and passing wealth on to first born/early born sons, leaving later sons with nothing, plus harsh intrasexual male competition in the form of polygyny, also played very large roles in mediating men's inceldom in the past.

Tradcons, critics suggest, cannot perceive this due to suffering from selection bias due to their fathers, grandfathers, and or male ancestors in general, being wealthier or higher status than many other men of that era who failed to reproduce due to low status. A kind of regression toward the mean. Thus the tradcons believe if they were born in that time, they would be wealthier and or higher income than most other men as well. The reality is that most super-low-status men in said traditional societies still ended up incel.

A counter argument to this is that while sex used to be very unevenly distributed in the barbaric human past, it was more evenly distributed in certain societies of the past, particularly in the 18th century to the mid 20th century with strongly enforced monogamy. Most tradcons prefer returning to this state (reverting the sexual revolution) rather than underdeveloped, polygynous societies.

Differences between tradcons[edit | edit source]

Traditionalist vary in the degree to which they want to return to traditions. Some luddite tradcons want to revert most of the technological revolution. Religious tradcons desire a return to religious traditions (churchgoing etc), with some being less overtly religious, but also generally opposing various forms of materialism, in favor of vitalism. Reactionary and monarchist tradcons seek to dismantle the legacy of political and social liberalism, e.g by ending universal suffrage. Many blackpillers, on the other hand, are only interested in restoring monogamy, the subordination of women and the nuclear family without any additional historical baggage.

Anti-tradcon sites[edit | edit source]

Related Memes[edit | edit source]

https://i.imgur.com/3PGHfnL.jpg


References[edit | edit source]

  1. https://incels.co/threads/me-52m-just-found-out-at-least-4-of-my-5-children-33f-30f-28m-24f-14f-are-not-mine-wife-51f-wont-say-anything.115218/page-3#post-2959506
  2. https://incels.co/threads/germany-1950-was-an-incel-wet-dream.147144/#post-3085283
  3. https://incels.co/threads/for-normies-inceltears-modern-day-expressions-of-female-sexuality-are-cringe-just-posturing-trying-to-emulate-male-sexuality-penis-envy.145710/#post-3061135
  4. https://incels.co/threads/if-men-cant-be-protectors-providers-theyll-be-destroyers-deprivers.140942/
  5. https://incels.co/threads/being-anti-religion-is-not-only-contradictory-but-also-completely-anti-incels.146724
  6. https://thebaffler.com/salvos/new-man-4chan-nagle
  7. https://twitter.com/Nothing61934312/status/1218546700664606721
  8. https://twitter.com/Nothing61934312/status/1218558878868213762
  9. https://www.insider.com/divorce-rate-changes-over-time-2019-1#as-the-country-entered-world-war-i-in-the-1910s-each-year-there-was-still-only-1-divorce-for-every-1000-americans-4
  10. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3002115/#!po=30.4878
  11. https://www.pnas.org/content/109/25/9781
  12. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0192513X07304269
  13. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228641949_A_Global_Survey_of_Sexual_Behaviours table 4
  14. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1090513818300643
  15. Steven M. Platek and Todd K. Shackelford (Eds.), Female Infidelity and Paternal Uncertainty: Evolutionary Perspectives on Male Anti-Cuckoldry Tactics. Cambridge University Press: New York, 2006.
  16. https://mancheeze.wordpress.com/tag/judgybitch/
  17. https://promalecollective.wordpress.com/2019/01/05/proof-that-karen-straughan-is-anti-male-enabler-of-trad-con-nut-jobs/
  18. https://promalecollective.wordpress.com/2019/01/10/a-new-video-by-msv-calling-the-trad-con-karen-straughan-out
  19. https://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/all-feminist-are-tradcons/
  20. https://web.archive.org/web/20110212015917/http://www.avoiceformen.com:80/2011/01/27/conservative-misandry/
  21. https://web.archive.org/web/20110212015917/http://www.avoiceformen.com:80/2011/01/27/conservative-misandry/
  22. https://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/is-there-anything-good-about-men-and-other-tricky-questions/
  23. https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2019/06/16/apc-census-reveals-percentage-of-us-men-who-are-fathers/
  24. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212066116300047
  25. https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2013.2400
  26. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886999001518?via%3Dihub
  27. https://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/is-there-anything-good-about-men-and-other-tricky-questions/

See Also[edit | edit source]

Redpill

Game

GameRomanceCourtshipNeggingSexual market valueBeautyCharismaOrbiterBullyingLMSPUAAssholeTalk therapyIndicator of interestDominance hierarchyFuck-off signalsSocial circleSlayerNeurolinguistic programmingOffline dating

Personality

NeurotypicalCoolCharismaStoicAssholeDark triadNice guyApproach anxietyConfidenceAsperger's SyndromeIQRationality

Pick Up Artists

Ross Jeffriesr/TRPReal Social DynamicsRooshVOwen CookPlayer SupremeWinston WuList of people in the seduction community

Sexuality

HypergamyCopulationCasual sexPump and dumpRapeSexual harassmentBodyguard hypothesisBetabuxReproductive successSexual envySex driveBateman's principleSexual economics theoryFemale passivitySexual attractionFemale orgasmSexual conflictSlutPaternity assuranceFeminine imperativePussy cartelRejectionAdverse effects of inceldomMaslow's hierarchy of needsHomosexualityHomocel hypothesisDemographics of inceldomPolygynyPolyandryMonogamyMarriageMate guardingMate poachingIntrasexual competitionFacial masculinityFisherian runawayCreepiness

Other theories

Timeless quotes on womenFemales are socially ineptWomen-are-wonderful effectGynocentrismMatthew effectApex fallacyClown worldFeminismSexual revolutionFemale subordinationFemale hypoagencyFemale solipsismPrincess syndromeFemale privilegeFemme fataleBriffault's lawJuggernaut lawHalo effectVariability hypothesisAntifragilityTriggeredLife historyScientific BlackpillScientific Blackpill (Supplemental)Evolutionary mismatchMutationBehavioral sinkPolitical correctness‎Affirmative actionVirtue signalingEugenicsEnvironmentalismMale scarcity

Blackpill

Philosophy

Biological essentialismEugenicsAnti-EnvironmentalismTraditional conservatismFatalismBlackpillScientific BlackpillScientific Blackpill (Supplemental)Behavioral sinkHypergamyMatthew effectBeautyFisherian runawayGood genes hypothesisDominance hierarchyIntrasexual competitionJ. D. UnwinSexual sublimationFemale subordinationOnline datingPhysiognomyPersonality

Marriage

SlutMonogamyMarriageArranged marriagePolygynyPolyandry

Anti-Lookism

LookismPuahate.com

Pills

BlackpillRacepillHeightpillDickpillBaldpillShitpillDogpillBirdpill

It's over

Cope or ropeCopeLay down and rotInbreeding depressionOutbreeding depressionMutationAtavismReproductive successDemographics of inceldomCauses of inceldomAdverse effects of inceldomEvolutionary mismatchBehavioral sink